White Mtn. Apache Rez--major closures

[azbackpackr]

Due to San Juan Fire, the Ft. Apache Reservation (White Mountain Apache Reservation) has closed all backcountry areas, except developed lakes and campgrounds.
http://inciweb.nwcg.gov/incident/article/3912/22148/

[chumley]

@azbackpackr
Is this even relevant to non-tribal members? My understanding is that recreation/hunt/fish/use permits on the reservation limited non-members to all those rec sites that are remaining open anyway (or with a guided service, which is also continuing). I don't think I am able to get a permit to wander and explore the Reservation, or fish in creeks and streams that are not part of the recreation areas. Perhaps that has been miscommunicated to me in the past...

[azbackpackr]

@azbackpackr
Is this even relevant to non-tribal members? My understanding is that recreation/hunt/fish/use permits on the reservation limited non-members to all those rec sites that are remaining open anyway (or with a guided service, which is also continuing). I don't think I am able to get a permit to wander and explore the Reservation, or fish in creeks and streams that are not part of the recreation areas. Perhaps that has been miscommunicated to me in the past...

I honestly don't know the answer to that, Todd. I do know that many of our HAZ members like to visit Pacheta Falls. I would assume it is "backcountry."

[chumley]

That's a good point. Though I know they have a special recreation pass for the Black River. Not sure if that's the same there. I find it to be an extremely frustrating experience to deal with the permit office at Hon Dah too. And their newly designed website (which allows online permit purchases) is not really any more help than the old one.

[FOTG]

@azbackpackr

You and Chumley did get me wondering a little about that...so I had a legal pass and everything, but did that cover what I did?

But remember all of the closings you mentioned were "White Mountain Apache" areas correct?...I was technically on "San Carlos Res" boundaries are a little weird in there...In fact, its real annoying because I did not think to purchase online, so I had to go through Globe on Friday to pick up pass...a tad longer route than the more direct route via
Payson..

Although, I seem to be on fire this week with misinformation, so I would not be surprised if you told me that Pacheta was on White Mountain Apache Res and I purchased the wrong res pass!

[chumley]

@friendofThundergod
Yup. Map skillz. Lol. ;)

Pacheta is on the White Mountain Apache Reservation (north of the Black River). Not San Carlos.

Pacheta Falls is in the Upper Black River "Special Use Area" (includes Rattlesnake Point) that has special permit requirements (south of Y40 to the river, east of Big Bonito Creek to the reservation boundary). It is also an area that is completely closed to access from Labor Day to April 1st every year.

This is not easy information to acquire. The website is not user-friendly.

I'll be the first to say I had no idea that Pacheta is off-limits to everybody from September through March. There might be a few people on this site who posted trips that had no idea it wasn't permitted during those dates. (To be fair, I wouldn't be surprised if the people issuing the permits didn't realize it wasn't allowed either. Which won't help you 1¢ in tribal court...)

The current fire closure includes the Upper Black River special use area including Rattlesnake Point and Pacheta Falls.

[azbackpackr]

Well, I'm in the dark, so I would not have known which Rez it is on, since I have never been there. I have to admit that I lived in Eagar for 14 years, hiked all over A-S National Forest, and also loved the State lands, AZGFD ranch purchases, and BLM lands (the last three mostly grasslands/LCR gorge), but I avoided the Rez areas, other than driving 260 to Pinetop from Eagar. My last summer there, (2013 summer) I stopped by Hawley Lake one day just to see it. I had never been there in all those years. I always heard horror stories and did not want to hike on the Rez. I realize that for every horror story there are probably 10,000 "happy camper" stories. But I heard the horror stories.

Whenever they'd close the A-S forest, I'd head for the State and BLM lands. I often preferred hiking out in the grasslands areas, since there are many deep gorges hidden from view, and many, many archaeological sites. Lots of pronghorn, too. I loved those areas because nobody friggin' NOBODY goes out there. Everyone, including most residents, thinks it's ugly. But hidden in those grasslands are really cool canyons with petroglyphs and water. Also, the dirt roads which create a maze on the grasslands, are wonderful to explore via mountain bike. In late summer that area is a paradise of wildflowers.

[outdoor_lover]

@friendofThundergod
Chums is right...If you go into MapDex and zero in on Pacheta in My Topo or Cal Topo, you will see that it falls on the White Mountain Apache Res....I think it is also spelled out in the Description for you as well.... If you had gone straight out of Globe instead of hanging a Left, you could have legally used that Pass to see Cibecue Falls... ;)

[FOTG]

@chumley
@Outdoor Lover

Wow thanks, good to know..I mean ignorance is not an excuse for breaking law, but I think I went out of my way (literally) to be on the up and up..but good info for future..thanks..I guess that explains why I had place to myself ;) I have to go back and re-PM someone, I think they may be heading that way!