Blue Range Primitive Area - Linking Dutch Blue Creek with Bear Mtn

[wildwesthikes]

Hello.

This coming May I am planning a multi-day trip in the Blue Range Primitive Area and wanted to see if I could get people with experience of the eastern side of the area to weigh in on my link-up idea.

I am seeing on various maps a trail simply called Trail #541. This route branches off from the Blue River and follows Little Blue Creek allowing access to Hannah Creek Hot Spring & Dutch Blue Creek Narrows near the Whiterocks Cabin. All trip reports from HAZ that I could find have most people doing a base camping type adventure where they setup near the cabin and then explore the Dutch Blue narrows; there is clearly an overland bypass they have mentioned that links for a short lasso loop.

That looks really cool, but I am trying to figure out a way to link that route as part of a much longer 7-9 day trip that uses KP Creek as an entry to the Blue River, following that downstream south, then turn northeast and follow the Little Blue Creek, eventually meeting back up with the Blue River and returning on Grant Creek - passing through the extreme east end of the Blue Range on the far part of the loop.

On various maps, this Trail #541 appears to leave the Dutch Blue drainage and climb into the foothills of the Bear Mountain / Whiterocks Mountain complex just west of the NM border. Normally what I do is pixel peep satellite photos (google earth), to try and determine how bad the route finding might be. I can see no discernable trail once you go north of Dutch Blue Creek. It appears to be an overland route-finding type of thing.

I am totally fine doing that type of hiking. But I'd just like to know if anyone here has attempted to link the upper part of Dutch Blue Canyon with the areas just north of there (Winter Cabin Spring and Corral). And please share your experience if you've done so.

Hopefully this post is detailed enough to figure out what I'm asking... Here is kind of the area I'm talking about. Notice the only posted recorded GPX route on HAZ stops at the Dutch Blue narrows and loops back.
[ custom map :: map ]

EDIT: To elaborate - I think this Trail #541 is also known as Little Dutch Blue Trail. I am most concerned with where it goes north of Ash Creek. It looks like the foothills are some kind of white slick-rock (think Escalante/Boulder Utah) or similar. I think that's why I see no trail in the sat photos. So... that's kind of the area. Again any experience over there linking up with the trail network just north of there is much appreciated!

Thanks!

[big_load]

I'd like to get back there and see what it's like now. My only trip there was before the fire, and the trails I followed were already somewhat barely there. I wish I could have seen more before it changed.

[Jim]

@friendofThundergod
The area off of and to the north of Matazal Peak is ripe for some work. Almost everywhere west of Mount Lemmon on the ridge above, and then down into the W.o.R. needs work. The upper sections along the Old Baldy Trail on Wrightson. Not sure how it looks post fire in 2017, but the Arcadia Trail, or whatever that is called, that goes to Heliograph Peak, it needs tons of work in the dense reproduction areas. So many places.

[outdoor_lover]

I honestly think that if it wasn't for volunteers, no trail work would get done anymore. I think it's the new norm. Why spend federal dollars maintaining trails when you can get others to do it for free?

[Tough_Boots]

@friendofThundergod

Its public land, if the FS is choosing to neglect it, we have the right to protect and improve it ourselves.

Disagree 100%. Where you see improvement as a maintained trail system-- others would see it as grazing (or outside a wilderness/primitive area as ohv trails, mineral extraction, or logging).

Have you thought about contacting ACE or AZCC to learn the process of how their projects are chosen and funded?

[FOTG]

@Tough_Boots I think you are reading a bit too much into what was generally a tongue and cheek statement, I thought me referencing the work of John Locke’s 18th century Social Contract theory and applying it to trail maintenance would have been the give away there ;)

[Tough_Boots]

@friendofThundergod

What forum do you think you're on???

[nonot]

I am genuinely curious to know, what the hell is the plan moving forward out here.

If you have any spare time these days, there's some pleasant reading available online.
https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/asnf/lan ... ev7_012553
You might even consider writing a letter to Tom Greene. Who knows? He might write you back!

I found only the follow material relevant to the discussion, which doesn't specifically address the Blue Range, but the entirety of A-S Forest:

Trail ... maintenance focused on high use trails.

Objectives for Nonmotorized Opportunities
• Annually, maintain at least 20 percent of nonmotorized trails

Keep in mind, this doesn't mean that every trail will be maintained within 5 years, more likely, the same 15% of trails get maintenance every year, while most other trails get completely neglected, with perhaps some variation year to year.

[FOTG]

@nonot This is interesting actually. I mean it explains what is going on out there I guess. A trail going five years, or more without maintenance out there right now, would certainly go primitive pretty quickly lol...

If they gave me the hand tools, I would give a week or so of my summer to them. But I want to choose the trail. lol

[chumley]

@nonot
Yeah, and we know that they clear both Escudilla and Baldy trails from deadfall each spring. Those would be the "high-use" trails. But they don't equal 20%. Plus, I suspect trails on the Black Mesa RD get more use than those on the Alpine RD. Who knows, though?

[nonot]

@nonot This is interesting actually. I mean it explains what is going on out there I guess. A trail going five years, or more without maintenance out there right now, would certainly go primitive pretty quickly lol...

If they gave me the hand tools, I would give a week or so of my summer to them. But I want to choose the trail. lol

I suspect a quick call to the ranger station can secure permission with the RD to perform trail maintenance. I believe Superstition Guy has some experience doing this as I recall getting an official permit for the catclaw attack event (HAZ semi-arranged trail maintenance back in 2010 ish).

I do think they would not approve though if your plan to use a chainsaw, as the vast majority of Blue Ridge area is designated as a primitive area, which generally means wilderness rules (no machines with motors allowed.)

[nonot]

@chumley
I believe the FS collects some statistics on trail usage to characterize which trails are "high use". After all, whenever you have a trailhead sign-in sheet it usually says something about helping the FS to identify popularity/usage information. As designated HAZ researcher, perhaps you could turn something up?

The wording is pretty nebulous through, as who knows how you figure 20%? By named trail? by mileage? And who maintains a list of "official trails" vs those "decommissioned" to determine how to calculate a 20% of something. Also, it is a goal/plan, it doesn't mean they actually accomplish that goal each year. They could also give an excuse and say, well we only did 2% of trails in year X because of budget cut Y.

[wildwesthikes]

I mean it's not like we have a sudden overnight problem with massive unemployment and a bunch of people sitting around not knowing what to do with themselves.

Where have I heard of this happening before? hmm...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_ ... tion_Corps

What an incredible opportunity for the rebuilding of AZ's ailing trail systems, ravaged by decades of high intensity fires. Too bad about the large rolls of red tape.

[Tough_Boots]

What an incredible opportunity for the rebuilding of AZ's ailing trail systems, ravaged by decades of high intensity fires. Too bad about the large rolls of red tape.

The good ol' days when we used the healing powers of socialism to hold up the quick to collapse frailties of American capitalism-- back when everything was simpler. Make America great again says I.

[FOTG]

@Tough_Boots
Don't you dare derail my Blue Range thread with your politics

[FOTG]

I think the below corridor and suggested trails would be a good start. It connects KP and Grant Creek. It also contains some of the nicest areas left after the fire based on my observations out there. There are still trout in Grant Creek. Paradise Park is still nice and rebounding nicely. Moonshine Park is still a treat and KP is a very scenic creek to hike along. The connecting trail of Steeple Mesa is nearly 100 percent devoid of alive trees and won't be the most scenic, but its a short stretch. Paradise Trail is also very nice and goes through a nice section of forest that survived the Wallow Fire. The trail along Grant Creek is also very nice and would open up some access to fishing for many.

[ Route Editor ]
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[Tough_Boots]

Don't you dare derail my Blue Range thread with your politics

Sorry! Nothing inherently political about public lands!

[chumley]

my Blue Range thread

[FOTG]

@chumley

In online discussions, a series of messages that have been posted as replies to each other. A single forum or conference typically contains many threads covering different subjects. By reading each message in a thread, one after the other, you can see how the discussion has evolved. You can start a new thread by posting a message that is not a reply to an earlier message.

IDK I think I used the term thread exactly how it is defined. WWH started a forum topic, I started a different thread as defined above.

[wildwesthikes]

I think the below corridor and suggested trails would be a good start.

That is very helpful, thanks - I appreciate your field research so to speak. Unfortunately I killed my IT band over the weekend hiking down the Jumpup-Nail trail at Kanab Creek Wilderness so it will have to wait a while. Till then I'll look into these specific trails to get an idea for loop routes.

[Tough_Boots]

@friendofThundergod

How dare you derail my political thread with your semantics!