HikeArizona.COM

We found this trail sign while hiking in East Clear Creek:

There was an old road near it and some signs of campsites around it but it was in a fairly inaccessible location. Trail 108 is the West Fork of Oak Creek Trail, and "V V" is a ranch somewhere here in Arizona but I don't know where. This was the only sign we found in the canyon and there were no blazes to further define the trail. Any ideas?

HAZ VV Map

I created a label to keep them together. While there are currently 7 photos, I believe there are only 5 unique signs currently identified.

My current best guess is an obsolete OHV or snowmobile trail sign. I'm more interested now in how long it will be before somebody breaks down and asks the USFS.

@big_load
Well Outdoor Lover has already asked, and Tough_boots has too. Getting the correct answer has so far proven elusive.

BTW I don't think your old OHV sign theory makes sense. There are no roads on the old travel management map (the one that inventoried all the roads so they could determine which to close and which to keep open) near the signs we have identified -- and I don't think OHV was even a thing when these signs were put up!

@chumley Well, not OHV in the modern sense, but more like dirt bikes. If the USFS doesn't know what they are, I wonder what would happen if you asked to remove them.

chumley wrote:Quick search shows that VVH is a surveying acronym for "Verified Vertical Horizontal". I don't see any surveying use of "Verfied Vertical" alone however.

VV = Verified Vertical Elevation
VVH = Verified Vertical Elevation and Horizontal Location

Did anyone ask the USGS?

Geocoded map updated to show all 5 -> http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6

big_load wrote:Did anyone ask the USGS?

I sent an email to bho@whitehouse.gov
I'll let you know when I get a response.
Oh hold on, there's somebody knocking at the door...

You should have used someone else's computer.

I can't find any sort of signage associated with that particular surveying terminology. However, the terms themselves seem to appear frequently with regard to buried utilities in reports.

Hank posted 1 in Bear, but I think there were at least two down there. I got Photos of them also and there was some discussion then. I think Hank even emailed the Forest Service about them and never got a Reply? ( I would Paste the Link but I don't know how with my "Pimp Phone") (bartel label lol)

@Outdoor Lover Yes & I re-posted your 6/23/12 sign pic here--> http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ID=509788

I think the numbers on the signs are interesting. They're too low to represent measurements of any precision. They must be indices that refer to data held elsewhere (as a road number for example).

I think the bigger mystery is why Chums hasn't hijacked this thread in 7 years...JK
I've seen these signs also but never gave them much thought till now. Their construction shows them to not be considered temporary, or some Government funded project. They appear to be from the late 50's 60's and could coincide with the time of heavy logging up there.

chumley wrote:I'll let you know when I get a response.

never happened eh

The one we recorded yesterday, is the most northern one so far.

I've updated the locations on the master.

http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6

One of these days.....

So I take it this one isn't on the list? I think it's a couple hundred feet upstream from where the U-Bar trail crosses Barbershop Canyon.

@rcorfman
Here? http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=14051&M=6
Yellow Flag

@The_Eagle
No, closer to 34.493167 -111.164617. It was downstream a short distance from a geocache at those coordinates. I don't remember how far away, probably less than 50'. That's not my picture either, it was posted by another finder of the geocache. Part of the hint for the geocache is, "When you reach VV72, you are getting close!"

Map and label are updated with rcorfman's VV 72. I also added the photo to one of my photosets just so it's got a PID on site somewhere.

I included another triangle on the rim posted by Kingsnake a year ago. It doesn't have a VV and may be unrelated. But just for reference and the potential link, I included it.

And technically the one at Kinder Crossing is also unidentified as to whether there is a VV or not.

As far as I can tell, there is only one sign we have found that has both up and down triangles, with a VVH on bottom and a VV on top.

The mystery continues...

http://hikearizona.com/map.php?MY=21909&M=6

Do they mark where the aliens laid their eggs?