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I'm interested in doing this big loop in the Eastern district of Saguaro... Tanque Verde Trail, to Grass Shack trail, to Manning Camp, take Cow Head Saddle back down to Douglas Spring, and then take The Cactus forest trail back to the car. Looks to be at least in th 35 mile range. so this could be done as an intense 2 day trip, or a more relaxed 3 day 2 night trip (the dates that would probably work best for a 3day would be, Friday after thanksgiving to that sunday).

If anyone is interested please let me know, we can get it all set up and apply for a permit a good month in advance.

dysfunction wrote:... there is no water at Manning per the ranger I talked to last week..

I have to agree with Jeff MacE. Are you sure he meant that the spring and pool below the campingsites are dry? I'd be amazed if that were true. I'm also dubious of what rangers say about water until I get a feel for whether they would ever tell a hiker that there's water out there.

big_load wrote:

dysfunction wrote:... there is no water at Manning per the ranger I talked to last week..

I have to agree with Jeff MacE. Are you sure he meant that the spring and pool below the campingsites are dry? I'd be amazed if that were true. I'm also dubious of what rangers say about water until I get a feel for whether they would ever tell a hiker that there's water out there.

I didn't see any around on todays ride, so I didn't ask again. That being said, I'm going to the canyon this week and the temp jumps 10º I LOVE hiking in 90º temps with no shade

Yeah...I know that they've got a sizeable storage tank up there, too... Rangers always tend to be difficult when it comes to reporting water availability. Seems like a lot of them want to either discourage you from going or avoid liability by telling you to carry everything you need. I wish there was a secret password or key that lets them know "I know what I'm doing, I'm a responsible and careful hiker, and I just want information" as opposed to "I have no idea what I'm getting myself in to and you'll probably need to rescue me anyway..."

writelots wrote:Yeah...I know that they've got a sizeable storage tank up there, too... Rangers always tend to be difficult when it comes to reporting water availability. Seems like a lot of them want to either discourage you from going or avoid liability by telling you to carry everything you need. I wish there was a secret password or key that lets them know "I know what I'm doing, I'm a responsible and careful hiker, and I just want information" as opposed to "I have no idea what I'm getting myself in to and you'll probably need to rescue me anyway..."

You will almost always have better luck with the law enforcement guys or the trail crews. Besides, they're the ones that are usually out afoot on the trails to really know, anyway. Asking the interpretive folks anything other than where the bathroom is will usually fetch a bizarre answer. People almost never run into the science folks, but they have a lot of good info if you want to wait long enough for them to explain the significance of the spring and how it formed...

Jeff MacE wrote:Asking the interpretive folks anything other than where the bathroom is will usually fetch a bizarre answer.

I resent that you said that rangers don't answer questions like that because of liability, if I could tell a person wasn't going to die in the backcountry, I would divulge all sorts of stuff, but I literally had people come in at Petrified Forest and apply for a backcountry permit, and they had LUGGAGE with them to carry their tents and supplies, am I going to tell these people "Oh by the way you dont have to carry water" thats what a ranger telling someone that Manning had water would translate into for some people.

rally_toad wrote:

Jeff MacE wrote:Asking the interpretive folks anything other than where the bathroom is will usually fetch a bizarre answer.

I resent that you said that rangers don't answer questions like that because of liability, if I could tell a person wasn't going to die in the backcountry, I would divulge all sorts of stuff, but I literally had people come in at Petrified Forest and apply for a backcountry permit, and they had LUGGAGE with them to carry their tents and supplies, am I going to tell these people "Oh by the way you dont have to carry water" thats what a ranger telling someone that Manning had water would translate into for some people.

I'm not suggesting liability, someone else did...