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Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 20 2009 8:37 pm
by joebartels
On page 150 of "Superstition Wilderness Trails East" it states the FS no longer puts mileage on signs. Anybody have any true inside info?
I wonder if it's only the Tonto?
Perhaps they get so many people with GPS calling in complaining? Kinda sad as I know from watching people post triplogs swearing by their GPS when it's absurdly off. A GPS route still must be combined with a real topo map to find an accurate medium.
The Ritas & GC have among the worst posted mileages I've witnessed from working data.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 1:55 pm
by rally_toad
Jeff MacE wrote:TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO YOUR CAR AND DO THE FOLLOWING:
1) GET MORE WATER THAN YOU CURRENTLY HAVE
2) TAKE YOUR DOG HOME
3) LEAVE SOURCES OF IGNITION BEHIND (NO SMOKING)
4) TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE
ONCE YOU PASS THIS SIGN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT BECOMES OF YOU - HELP WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATE.
I do think that is a good idea... I already am a big fan of the Canyon's "DO NOT HIKE TO THE RIVER AND BACK IN ONE DAY OR YOU WILL DIE!!"
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 3:19 pm
by Jeffshadows
rally_toad wrote:Jeff MacE wrote:TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO YOUR CAR AND DO THE FOLLOWING:
1) GET MORE WATER THAN YOU CURRENTLY HAVE
2) TAKE YOUR DOG HOME
3) LEAVE SOURCES OF IGNITION BEHIND (NO SMOKING)
4) TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE
ONCE YOU PASS THIS SIGN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT BECOMES OF YOU - HELP WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATE.
I do think that is a good idea... I already am a big fan of the Canyon's "DO NOT HIKE TO THE RIVER AND BACK IN ONE DAY OR YOU WILL DIE!!"
I think this is what it's going to take. A lot of our society is now overrun with people suffering from attention deficit secondary to mass information overload. They simply won't read the entire sign. You have to make a sign akin to Twitter...
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 3:20 pm
by JimmyLyding
How about:
IF YOU DO THIS ALONE AND BECOME INCAPACITATED WE WILL FIND YOU BY FOLLOWING THE BUZZARDS
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 3:39 pm
by BobP
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 3:49 pm
by JimmyLyding
No kidding. Definitely NOT recommended. Here's three of my favorites:
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=104712
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=54893
http://hikearizona.com/phoZOOM.php?ZIP=54901
As for the more germane topic, I only like signs where a junction is not obvious. GPS or not I think that the public good is better served when people aren't getting lost because not everyone is a good route-finder or owns a GPS unit. As for mileages...they're worthless, and the best way to have a good hike is to be prepared: take enough food & water, don't go beyond your limits, and research the area beforehand. Know what you're doing!
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 24 2009 5:29 pm
by azbackpackr
You could print that list up yourself, laminate it and tack it up there at Finger Rock or wherever. Wouldn't cost much. Wonder how long it would stay up, though.
It wasn't so long ago (15 years maybe??) that few people hiked all of Finger Rock Trail. I remember that it was hard to follow in places up there.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 7:06 am
by Jeffshadows
azbackpackr wrote:You could print that list up yourself, laminate it and tack it up there at Finger Rock or wherever. Wouldn't cost much. Wonder how long it would stay up, though.
It wasn't so long ago (15 years maybe??) that few people hiked all of Finger Rock Trail. I remember that it was hard to follow in places up there.
Beyond that first little vista point (~1.6mi) the crowds still thin significantly....but that short, exposed hike alone is enough to do some in over the summer months.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 10:35 am
by writelots
We must protect those young, rich and occasionally uninformed college students, you know. They're the backbone of the mid-town economy.
Maybe the sign should read instead:
"1) GET MORE WATER THAN YOU CURRENTLY HAVE (buy a water bottle from Summit Hut)
2) TAKE YOUR DOG HOME (or better yet, board them with Sit Stay Play)
3) LEAVE SOURCES OF IGNITION BEHIND (NO SMOKING) (consider taking up chew - purchasable at the Crescent Smoke Shop)
4) TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE (buy a new cell phone - better yet, a blackberry and text everyone you know)
ONCE YOU PASS THIS SIGN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT BECOMES OF YOU - HELP WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATE. (but we will charge your parents for it)"
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 10:38 am
by Jeffshadows
I like it. We might catch more flies by telling them to turn around a return to Starbucks for a fu-fu water than SH...
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 11:54 am
by JoelHazelton
Jeff MacE wrote:We could rig something like we had in the sandbox where you can only see certain traffic indicators with night vision equipment. There are some of those in the US already for use by FEMA so the precedent exists...
In all seriousness, I'd like to see the FS and NPS "beef-up" and simplify their language a little bit, in general. This goes especially for trail head signage. The boards at Finger Rock and other popular wilderness-area trails should have a separate sign that states the following in huge, 10" letters and all caps:
TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO YOUR CAR AND DO THE FOLLOWING:
1) GET MORE WATER THAN YOU CURRENTLY HAVE
2) TAKE YOUR DOG HOME
3) LEAVE SOURCES OF IGNITION BEHIND (NO SMOKING)
4) TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE
ONCE YOU PASS THIS SIGN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT BECOMES OF YOU - HELP WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATE.
Number 2 is obviously thrown in there to stir up more conflict, but otherwise, I like the proposed sign!
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 1:33 pm
by Jeffshadows
azpride wrote:Jeff MacE wrote:We could rig something like we had in the sandbox where you can only see certain traffic indicators with night vision equipment. There are some of those in the US already for use by FEMA so the precedent exists...
In all seriousness, I'd like to see the FS and NPS "beef-up" and simplify their language a little bit, in general. This goes especially for trail head signage. The boards at Finger Rock and other popular wilderness-area trails should have a separate sign that states the following in huge, 10" letters and all caps:
TURN AROUND AND GO BACK TO YOUR CAR AND DO THE FOLLOWING:
1) GET MORE WATER THAN YOU CURRENTLY HAVE
2) TAKE YOUR DOG HOME
3) LEAVE SOURCES OF IGNITION BEHIND (NO SMOKING)
4) TELL SOMEONE WHERE YOU ARE
ONCE YOU PASS THIS SIGN YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR WHAT BECOMES OF YOU - HELP WILL NOT BE IMMEDIATE.
Number 2 is obviously thrown in there to stir up more conflict, but otherwise, I like the proposed sign!
I beg your pardon? I couldn't care less about arguing with people on the Internet. If you read my post it states quite clearly that I am talking about *wilderness areas*...no dogs in a designated Wilderness...ever. #2 is there because I routinely run into dunces with their dogs miles deep into the Pusch Ridge Wilderness despite ample signage at the trail heads.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 1:59 pm
by JimmyLyding
I'm not anti-dog or 100% against letting dogs off of the leash, but they're not allowed in the Pusch Ridge Wilderness. However, I have seen many many unleashed dogs in that particular wilderness area.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 2:10 pm
by joebartels
It's been my experience that anything that needs numbering is only taken to heart by the one that wrote it.
Perhaps a more visual approach. A couple dead bodies by the trailhead with empty water bottles and such.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 2:28 pm
by Jeffshadows
joe bartels wrote:It's been my experience that anything that needs numbering is only taken to heart by the one that wrote it.
Perhaps a more visual approach. A couple dead bodies by the trailhead with empty water bottles and such.
Maybe so
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 2:59 pm
by chumley
Jeff MacE wrote:...no dogs in a designated Wilderness...ever.
This is simply not true. While there are wilderness areas that specifically prohibit dogs, the vast majority of Wilderness areas in Arizona have no such prohibition.
Examples of popular wilderness areas in Arizona that are dog-friendly include Kachina Peaks, Four Peaks, Fossil Springs, Superstition, Mazatzal, Red-Rock/Secret Mountain, etc.
I'm not familiar with the areas near Tucson, which may be more restrictive than other parts of the state.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 3:01 pm
by chumley
joe bartels wrote:Perhaps a more visual approach. A couple dead bodies by the trailhead with empty water bottles and such.
I don't know ... do the white crosses all over the state's roadways slow anybody down?
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 3:14 pm
by big_load
chumley wrote:I don't know ... do the white crosses all over the state's roadways slow anybody down?
They're getting devalued in NJ: people are now putting up crosses for pets that got run over. Next they'll do it for opossums and squirrels.
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 3:16 pm
by joebartels
Not like photo radar. Is the next step photoTH
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 3:26 pm
by JimmyLyding
The reason dogs aren't allowed in the Pusch Ridge Wilderness is to protect the desert bighorn sheep that are allegedly there
Re: Forest Signs
Posted: Aug 25 2009 3:26 pm
by Jeffshadows
chumley wrote:Jeff MacE wrote:...no dogs in a designated Wilderness...ever.
This is simply not true. While there are wilderness areas that specifically prohibit dogs, the vast majority of Wilderness areas in Arizona have no such prohibition.
Examples of popular wilderness areas in Arizona that are dog-friendly include Kachina Peaks, Four Peaks, Fossil Springs, Superstition, Mazatzal, Red-Rock/Secret Mountain, etc.
I'm not familiar with the areas near Tucson, which may be more restrictive than other parts of the state.
You're correct - I got ahead of myself. No dogs in Pusch Ridge Wilderness...ever.