HikeArizona.COM

The gender issue doesn't come up very often but when it does, you will find me hot under the collar. Here are several examples which either bugged me or actually really, totally made me very, very angry:

1. A newbie posts on here, is looking to find a hiking companion for an upcoming trip, whom he refers to as a "him." (Annoying but may have been just a mistake.)

2. A boating friend sends me an email saying there is a private Grand Canyon trip set up which he is not invited on, because they want more female passengers. What for, I ask, to cook, clean and have sex with? I hope all the boatwomen slam that group, and tell them where to go. (Trips should not be gender-selective. That is just plain stupid.)

3. I post a hike for Grand Canyon, and a guy emails me to ask how many "single women" are going on it. This has to be the biggest faux pas of the century. No single woman in her right mind is going to go on a trip if she hears there is some lecherous knuckle-dragger going along, who will continually make passes at her. (I gleefully mention this guy's name to anyone I think knows him, and I tell them I think he is a total jerk, even though I have never met him. What an idiot. He deserves to never, ever have another girlfriend as long as he lives.)

I like my groups to be of casual mixed company. Sometimes I end up with all women, sometimes I am the only gal, but most times in the past, when I have organized a trip, we end up with a mixture of men and women, married and single. It has never been much of an issue. People who try to make it be one way or the other are mostly just REALLY UPTIGHT!!!

writelots wrote:As far as I know, there haven't been any substantial relationships resulting from an ABC trip. Actually, we probably have better odds with ending relationships than with starting them... ;)

...Just like the military...

writelots wrote:As far as I know, there haven't been any substantial relationships resulting from an ABC trip. Actually, we probably have better odds with ending relationships than with starting them...

So much for "Absence makes the heart grow fonder"!

azbackpackr wrote:. A newbie posts on here, is looking to find a hiking companion for an upcoming trip, whom he refers to as a "him." (Annoying but may have been just a mistake.)

Maybe his wife/gf made him write it that way ;)


ABC trip
Now I have that Jackson 5 song stuck in my head again. :yuck:

rlrjamy wrote:Maybe his wife/g made him...

ught ohh, this has the makings of the next nudity, weather, guns thread

Coldplay had a nice VMA performance with a song about the dynamics of birds bringing all of technology to less than spectacular reality. With in it the underlying message being somethings get made by miracles. It's been my experience that... well, that I better shut up now

joe bartels wrote:nudity, weather, guns thread

Did I miss something!? Always a day late and a bullet short...

Naked men on the trail with guns looking for women and the best Mexican food...sounds like a flashback to earlier human history!!

Jeff MacE wrote:Naked men on the trail with guns looking for women and the best Mexican food...sounds like a flashback to earlier human history!!

Not quite as frightening to me as naked women on the trail -with guns- looking for men and competing to see who cooks the best Mexican food... Men on the prowl are annoying. Women on the prowl are, well

Now THAT will give me nightmares!

Put me in the camp that appreciates women on the prowl

Jeff MacE wrote:About five years back I actually had a solo female backpacker ask me if she could "Sit in my camp for a while" once near Sycamore Reservoir because a group of guys with "Heavy European accents" and an ice cooler full of cheap wine were following her around everywhere she tried to put up her tent and harassing her...

When I see a cop pull somebody over and see him (or her) unsnap the holster with the hand on the gun as they approach the car, I feel good seeing that sort of thing. I would get that same feeling passing a female backpacker who was hiking alone with a .45 clearly visible in her shoulder holster. It's knowing that the other responsible human being out there you've seen or encountered is keeping safe. Especially a woman who is by herself when there is a distinct possibility she could encounter a weirdo.

I guess the point is that even though we'd like to think that everybody is the same and we don't like to make distinctions there are general differences that need to be taken into account. Please don't take me wrong, I mean this in a good way. However, there are strange people out there and a public invitation can bring some disagreeable or downright weird people into the mix (be it men or women.)

I like hiking alone for a lot of reasons. I've also hiked with some people from this site and it was great. I guess you have to get to know people a little bit before you dive in. Part of the reason I think that the group hike I did participate in went well was because: everybody came from this site, we interacted back and fourth a few times beforehand, the hike was one of the hardest in the Superstitions (ridgeline) and if everything went wack I was prepared to continue or abort the hike by myself.

As for going on an overnight or multi-day backpacking trip, I'd have to know the people involved before I did that. Not much mind you but a little interaction ahead of time and perhaps knowing they are friends of a friend or people I know sort of thing. Embarking on something like that (multi-day or overnight) with total strangers sounds like a recipe for suffering. The ability to be a pain in the backside is not restricted to men or women, both are afflicted with this.

I tried something one time and was never the same. I was going to a spend some time in a place that was particularly impoverished and depressing. I thought to myself, "I'm going to set my mind to find and think about everything good about this place." I tried it and it worked. Even to this day I can't dislike the place and there's quite a bit to dislike about it. This same thing can apply to meeting new people and engaging in group activities no matter who is involved, be it all women, men or mixed, etc. It is our own attitude we bring into it that makes the difference as the participant. People may be late, or ask dumb questions, they might even complain or not be totally up to the task of the hike but aren't we all like that at some point in time? Remember that everybody involved is in a shared activity and this is the focal point of something pleasant.

Hence the reason to start with day hikes with a group of strangers. Once you get to know them, then you can go on a week long backpacking trip and really learn to dislike them.

You make some very good points, very interesting perspective. If I met you on a hike I would probably want to ask about the impoverished place where you spent time, that sounds like a life-changing experience.

Everyone is different. I myself find I really enjoy a lot of solo dayhiking, mtn. biking and cross country skiing. But I have found I get sort of bored and lonely sitting in camp by myself on a solo bp trip. I always bring a paperback book and a notebook, but that gets old. I enjoy the visiting that goes on in a small group or with one companion.

I have guided quite a few backpacking trips over the years for the So. Az. Hiking Club. Since I have lived up here in Eagar for almost 11 years, and had been a member of SAHC only 4 years when I moved here from Tucson, I often do not know the people who are going on my trips. It is a total crapshoot.

I have had mostly really good times with these folks, I have to say--some of the best friends I have made while living here in Eagar are with people who live in Tucson! There have been one or two times I wished I was with someone else, or that one or two out of the 5 people in a group weren't there, but not because they were horrible people, only that I didn't feel very much in common with them.

I am in a unique situation, though, since I can count on the fingers of half of one hand all the women I know in Eagar, Springerville, Alpine or Nutrioso who would go backpacking. And as for local men who go backpacking, they are mostly Boy Scout leaders, and they are nice but they are very conservative, and would not want to do a mixed group backpacking trip with random people. (There may be a lot of backpackers in Pinetop or Show Low--the raft trip I am doing is going to be mostly people from there--I may meet a few backpackers in that bunch.)

Guiding hikes for SAHC opened up a whole new world for me, too. Not only did I meet some great people, but also I have learned a lot by doing the "guide" thing. If you happen to belong to ABC, I will probably be facilitating some for that group as well.

I know plenty of women who don't need a gun to take care of themselves. I can tell you a story about a female MP who beat back a group of angry Iraqis at one of our entry control points after they had ripped her body armor off and taken her pistol and M4. She started throwing fists and won. I can tell fifteen or twenty other stories about men who urinated down their respective legs in the face of danger whether they were armed or not. I don't think a woman out by herself while backpacking is being inherently "unsafe" by not being armed; especially since the qualifying factor here seems to be the fact that she's female. If just being male meant you were safe from the depravity of others then we wouldn't have some of the things that go on in prisons happening, would we?

What's more, practical experience tells me she might even be safer having not introduced a weapon into a situation where there may not have been one prior. That goes for anyone who carries a weapon he or she is not at least 90% ready and skilled enough to use at the drop of a hat.

Jeff MacE wrote:That goes for anyone who carries a weapon he or she is not at least 90% ready and skilled enough to use at the drop of a hat.

Which is precisely why, despite being in possession of adequate technology and adequately trained to use it, I still don't carry. If anyone is going to mess with me in the back country, than it's going to be be their will against mine - and those are odds I can live with.

I do carry once in awhile, but mostly in areas, such as the Blue Primitive Area, where rabies is reported every year.

That being said I would be no match for anyone who would want to tackle me. I am small and not at all scrappy. I never even wrestled with siblings as a child. Have no clue. On the other hand, I bit a guy really hard on the arm one time who held me down and was tickling me. It drew blood and left a big bite mark... He was mad and never asked me out again, which was fine with me--I truly hate any kind of wrestling, horseplay, etc. Basically, you had better leave me the f**k alone or I will kick you where it hurts the most. That is all I know how to do.

People have tried to teach me some basic karate moves, but I am not good at learning stuff like that in one or two lessons--I tend to forget the information pretty much immediately. I would have to take a semester class to get any kind of muscle memory going.

Jeff MacE wrote:I know plenty of women who don't need a gun to take care of themselves. I can tell you a story about a female MP who beat back a group of angry Iraqis...

The gun really wasn't the issue, I was trying to draw out the legitimate differences between the genders that we should recognize. There may be loads of women that can fist fight pretty good but that's a statistical anomaly in the general population. It just needs to be acknowledged that as a general rule, men are more aggressive, have better upper body strength and resort to physical violence way more than women do in any given situation. These are the kind of points I was trying to draw in. We all may not like this but it should be considered as a part of reality.

Not so say we can't change things in our own little slice of the world but the problem has been around for eons.

Jeff MacE wrote:I don't think a woman out by herself while backpacking is being inherently "unsafe" by not being armed; especially since the qualifying factor here seems to be the fact that she's female.

This seems to be where we differ. Not that she's inherently unsafe but the general idea of what I was trying to convey with the short quip and how that points to the reality of the differences. Of course, bad behavior by men against women can run the full gamut, from drooling looks to outright violence, and it is all something to be upset about. I guess what I should have said it to begin with and cut to the chase. Men can be, and are, many times, a**holes in a lot of instances (I can say that because I am one.)

Jeff MacE wrote:If just being male meant you were safe from the depravity of others then we wouldn't have some of the things that go on in prisons happening, would we?

Yes, it's the strong taking advantage of the weak. This is where the nail is hit on the head precisely. It's not the fact that women are always weaker than men (your story and the comments by others supports that) it's the perception of the random knuckle dragging troglodyte who happens to meet women by herself out in the wilderness with a group of his like minded idiot friends. We can get bent out of shape that perceptions are the way they are but these morally bent perceptions carried around by more than a few random troglodytes out there need to be factored into reality.

I had a martial arts teacher once tell me: "A master is somebody who stops the fight before it starts." This was from a guy who you would never guess in a million years knew what he knew and he taught more than a few women how to be absolute killing machines. He grew up in a place where demure, petite women would walk around in heels and formal wear with their hair up in a bun that was held together with wooden pins which were really long razors in sheaths that are soaking in poison (Indonesia in the 40's and 50's, in case you were wondering.)

Jeff MacE wrote:What's more, practical experience tells me she might even be safer having not introduced a weapon into a situation where there may not have been one prior. That goes for anyone who carries a weapon he or she is not at least 90% ready and skilled enough to use at the drop of a hat.

Making assumptions can be the mother of all suffering. That same teacher I spoke of used to say regarding fighting a group, "I become small and draw them in, then suddenly I become large." Hearing that at the time kind of scared the begeezes out of me because I knew the guy pretty well and he actually enjoyed the sound of bones breaking. But I digress, it's better for both men and women to acknowledge the differences in a mature way and put up with the foibles and weaknesses of others (within reason) and not get upset about things they have no control over. Life's too short and why ruin a perfectly good hike stewing on something that you didn't have control over anyway. That's kind of universal and would apply to both sexes.

writelots wrote:Which is precisely why, despite being in possession of adequate technology and adequately trained to use it, I still don't carry. If anyone is going to mess with me in the back country, than it's going to be be their will against mine - and those are odds I can live with.

Besides, hiking on most Arizona trails, the great advantage is that the world is your weapon. Just keep your footing and with a calm head, trip the guy off the trail into a field of teddy bear cholla and you can rest easy that you'll beat him out to the trail head and get to a phone to call the cops.

Oh you've got a photo of that golfer guy, too! Now why didn't someone just start combing them off of him?

Generally speaking, when you dislodge the pad it leaves a bunch of spines behind. The EMS units typically leave cases like this one alone until the person gets to the ED...but I can't say what they did here...

azbackpackr wrote:Oh you've got a photo of that golfer guy, too! Now why didn't someone just start combing them off of him?

'cause then the would not have gotten such funny photos!

I hope one of the EMS staff members was not responsible for that photo, actually. Even though you cannot directly identify the patient in the photo, this is still a very bad practice. What's more, it can be both illegal and unethical if the patient can be identified. It ruins all the fun, I know... ;)

Yeah, don't you wonder if anyone on the scene is going to catch heck for allowing the camera to follow around? I wonder if it was actually that guy's golfing pal who took the pics and started posting them? Anyone recognize those paramedics? What dept. are they from?