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Denison Mines has applied to the Arizona Dept. of Environmental Quality to mine uranium near the Canyon. There are over 1,000 mining claims within miles of the Park that will watch the decision and then proceed. The debate has been ongoing for a few years---uranium prices dropped in the 1980's but, with the increased interest in nuclear fuel as a power source, prices have gone back up and uranium mining is now more profitable.

For some history on the current move to begin mining:

(dead link removed)

(or use your search box on "uranium mining grand canyon"

For the Denison Mine application:

(dead link removed)

For the Native American perspective:
(dead link removed)
http://www.indigenousaction.org/uranium ... nd-canyon/

There will be public hearings in Flag and Fredonia---during the peak of snow storm season.

Canyonram wrote:Here, you appear as an apologist for the uranimium mining indusrty to proceed with plans to operate uranium mines near the Grand Canyon that could have long-term health effects????

Do you work for the mining industry?

Not apologizing for anything. Just, as big_load mentioned, pointing out that the permits are for groundwater quality. I see little danger to the aquifers from dry mine shafts taking uranium out of the ground. Tailings, processing sites, etc. those all have valid safety concerns (as you rightly point out).

Do I work for the mining industry? No. I'm a science teacher. I do know a few things about uranium and nuclear power though. I have been uranium prospecting. I teach about energy. My father designed nuclear reactors for General Electric for his entire career. I am interested in all things nuclear so I've done a bit of avocational study about nuclear power, uranium extraction, etc. Just happens to be something I'm in to.

Just being alive and functional in a fossil-fuel based economy makes me one of the guilty when it comes to abusing our World. I use enough energy in a single week to meet the needs of a third-world family for a year . . . or more. That being said, I don't think nuclear energy is the answer to the upcoming energy crisis facing the modern industrial world and the gluttony of me and my fellow US citizens. There is too high a price to pay when the by-products of the uranium mining process are placed in the environment. The harmful effects are not like the BP oil spill---Mother Nature can handle that oily mess in a generation or two. Not so with the contamination imprint of nuclear waste.

The other aspect of the uranium mining near the Canyon is that it continues the genocide of the Native American people who live in the environment subject to the contamination (Havasupai, Hualapai, Pauite). Check the effects of uranium mining on the Navajo people. For two decades after the health effects of radon exposure were understood, Navajo men worked the uranium mines without any protective gear and they and their families suffered the consequences. They did this trusting the US government would protect them, grateful for the opportunity to earn a paycheck. If you are teaching science in Page, AZ, you have a high proportion of Native American students. They understand uranium mining and the effects as well as anyone from the Arizona Dept. of Environmental Quality.

This disregard for Native Peoples has to stop. Their Right to Exist is more important than whether or not you or I 'think' or 'believe' that the mining is not going to affect groundwater (or any other aspect of the living enviroment). Another example: the coal industry has sucked the water from the aquifer under the Hopi Nation to slurry transport coal---their ancient springs and source of livelihood is drying up so coal can be transported to produce electricity for my use, your use. The aquifer depletion is a fact, something I'm sure the coal mining industry 'believed' would never happen. The ugly irony is the majority of Navajo/Hopi people don't even have electrical service.

Those are two of my reasons for being against the granting of uranium mining permits near the Grand Canyon (or anywhere else).

Canyonram wrote:The other aspect of the uranium mining near the Canyon is that it continues the genocide of the Native American people who live in the environment subject to the contamination (Havasupai, Hualapai, Pauite).

This I disagree with. I don't think that mining of anything constitutes genocide.

Check the effects of uranium mining on the Navajo people. For two decades after the health effects of radon exposure were understood, Navajo men worked the uranium mines without any protective gear and they and their families suffered the consequences.

The stuff I have read indicates that the US government implemented air quality standards in reservation mines years before non-reservation mines. Source for that is "Uranium Frenzy."

If you are teaching science in Page, AZ, you have a high proportion of Native American students. They understand uranium mining and the effects as well as anyone from the Arizona Dept. of Environmental Quality.

Actually, my students don't know jack about uranium or nuclear energy in general - but that'll change.

This disregard for Native Peoples has to stop. Their Right to Exist is more important than whether or not you or I 'think' or 'believe' that the mining is not going to affect groundwater (or any other aspect of the living enviroment).

Tribes absolutely have the right to exist. You won't find me arguing that at all. Does mining represent an existential risk to the tribes though? Will every member of the tribe be killed or be unable to practice traditional ways? In some cases, yes. The Navajo Nation has blocked uranium mining on their lands, as one example of tribes combating what they see as a threat.

Another example: the coal industry has sucked the water from the aquifer under the Hopi Nation to slurry transport coal---their ancient springs and source of livelihood is drying up so coal can be transported to produce electricity for my use, your use. The aquifer depletion is a fact, something I'm sure the coal mining industry 'believed' would never happen.

Actually, not any more. Mojave Generating Station is shut down (permanently) and the mine/slurry likewise shuttered.

I think we need to carefully consider these mines potential impacts very carefully - specifically their remediation plans for the site and security of the transport chain - we don't need ore spread all over I-40.

Hello PageRob,

Mining leading to genocide---read the history of what happened to the Native Americans who happened to be in California after gold was discovered there. Or the Native Americans who happened to live between the Mississippi River and California when the gold rush crashed. Here in AZ, the Navajo were rounded up and kept captive at Bosque Redondo, NM until it became too expensive to keep them prisoners there and no gold/silver was discovered on their land. For the Native American perspective on what happened after the 1849 Gold Rush: http://www.1849.org/index2.html

For a brief history of Uranium Mining & Navajo; http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/re ... 9/1410.pdf
The students will not speak about the Dead and issues like Uranium Mining to an outsider unless you have gained their trust (even then, speaking of the Dead is off limits). You won't gain their trust if you assume that they don't know anything about uranium mining---what you will earn is their silence. You must take it upon yourself to educate yourself to the history of the treatement of Native Americans.

The Navajo were partners in the uranium mining and were glad for the jobs---until they learned the truth regarding the dangers---they then reacted to stop it. Once the dangers became known, the 'control' of the uranium mines was turned over to the Navajo. Before the Navajo government could take action, it was too late---there are dump sites in Tuba City that accepted the Orphan Mine wastes that are now major remediation concerns. The operations resulted in contaminating groundwater in the Navajo Sandstone aquifer at the Tuba City site.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/pa ... itle1.html

We won't need to consider any remediation plan and site security or ore spread all over I-40 if the permit to operate is withheld and the mines don't go into operation in the first place.

Regarding Rob's students, I am pretty sure that they care only about texting, movies, video games, the opposite sex (and how to score with the latter), fast food, and clothing/styles. Just like any other middle school kids.

Canyonram wrote:Mining leading to genocide---read the history of what happened to the Native Americans who happened to be in California after gold was discovered there. Or the Native Americans who happened to live between the Mississippi River and California when the gold rush crashed. Here in AZ, the Navajo were rounded up and kept captive at Bosque Redondo, NM until it became too expensive to keep them prisoners there and no gold/silver was discovered on their land. For the Native American perspective on what happened after the 1849 Gold Rush: http://www.1849.org/index2.html

I am quite familiar with all of this. I have visited Bosque Redondo and it is indeed quite a bleak place. Lots of bad vibes out there (if I can get away with such an unscientific term). Was what happened back then genocide (or close to)? Historians are still debating that, and I lean towards "yes" myself.
But...but we aren't rounding anyone up or forcing anyone to do anything when it comes to mining today. How many people will be forcibly removed to make way for these mines? How many tribal sacred sites are going to be mined with these proposed mines? I think the answer is 0 - that does not constitute genocide, and calling it such is using inflammatory rhetoric to suggest a certain position is correct.
Again, I am all for considering not mining at these sites. But I do not think this has anything to do with Native Americans. The mines are not on tribal lands and the mill is not on tribal lands. Some loads of ore might pass through the Navajo Nation...but I believe some are already from the Kanab North mine to get to the White Mesa Mill (outside of Monticello). Incidentally, that means those loads need to pass through Page...

For a brief history of Uranium Mining & Navajo; http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/re ... 9/1410.pdf

Link doesn't work for me. I have read on the Navajos and uranium mining in the past (and will again in the future). Have you read "Yellow Dirt"? I am thinking about picking that one up for my next nuclear read - it deals directly with uranium mining and the Navajo.

The students will not speak about the Dead and issues like Uranium Mining to an outsider unless you have gained their trust (even then, speaking of the Dead is off limits). You won't gain their trust if you assume that they don't know anything about uranium mining---what you will earn is their silence. You must take it upon yourself to educate yourself to the history of the treatement of Native Americans.

You are assuming I have done nothing to educate myself to the treatment of Native Americans, nor that I have gained the trust of the students or even attempted to ascertain the level of knowledge that my students have about uranium or nuclear power. As an example of a lack of knowledge, it is "common knowledge" among some of my students that NGS is a nuclear power plant. Some of my students have older relatives that worked in the mines in the Cameron district, so some are marginally aware, but not most.

there are dump sites in Tuba City that accepted the Orphan Mine wastes

It was a mill accepting ore for processing, not a waste-remediation dump.

The operations resulted in contaminating groundwater in the Navajo Sandstone aquifer at the Tuba City site.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/nuclear/pa ... itle1.html

Which is a different rock type all together than the ones being mined at the proposed sites - Navajo Sandstone is highly porous. In addition this was a mill site - where ore was refined, not a mine. Also, this site was in operation before the EPA existed so the retention ponds were not lined with impermeable materials to prevent exactly what we are talking about. Historically the biggest environmental disasters associated with uranium mining have been mills, not mines. Take a look at the URECO mill outside of Moab - a superfund site. Take a look at the Lake Valley mill - totally contaminated. And you already mentioned the Tuba City mill. We should be more concerned with how Dennison is operating their mill in SE Utah, in my opinion.

I see we are at a dead-end in the debate.

The entire continent is tribal land. Using the term 'genocide' is not inflammatory. It is the single word that describes what was done to Native Americans as an entire continent was taken and the Native American survivors were placed in the original concentration camps---reservations. There are many who dispute that the Nazi extermination vs. Jews was not 'genocide' and didn't happen. Our history books avoid the ugly truth---I remember reading about the 1849 gold rush to California in high school and how thousands went West and 'settled' in California. What was never mentioned was that thousands of Native Americans were slaughtered as miners invaded their homeland and went for gold.

Red Butte outside Tusuyuan it a sacred site and the location of religious ceremony and is within spitting distance of one of the proposed mines. I know many get weary of hearing Native American leaders claiming that 'this place is sacred.' It is a concept that is hard to accept by those whose goal is domination of the natural world instead of harmony with the natural world. If you proceed as if you have the right of dominion over the Natural World, it is a mindless task to destroy and take what is your right. If you appreciate that you are a part of the Natural World, you know that everything is indeed sacred. Artifical boundary lines drawn on a map have no weight and a statement that 'no tribal lands will be mined' is meaningless. In the Christian mythology, Adam and Eve were expelled from Paradise and mankind was left to struggle to survive; the opposite view is that we are now in Paradise and the World around us contains all that we need if we stay in balance and walk in harmony.

I don't know if I can ever rise above my own upbringing and fully understand what is means to 'Walk in Beauty.' For a start, I say 'NO' to continued uranium mining permits.

PageRob,

Here's the citation for the article 'The History of Uranium Mining and the Navajo People' by Doug Brugge and Rob Goble in the American Journal of Public Health, September 2002, Vol 92, No. 9

Here's another try at the link: http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/re ... 9/1410.pdf

Canyonram wrote:I see we are at a dead-end in the debate.

I don't think so. I think that the merits (or lack thereof) of uranium mining can be debated.

The entire continent is tribal land. Using the term 'genocide' is not inflammatory.

I believe that in regards to current happenings it certainly is. In our (America's) past there was certainly a contrived effort to eliminate and exterminate Native Americans. And there were also times when coexistence was attempted and failed for various reasons. I agree that genocide is the appropriate term for much of the prior history of the Euro-Indian contact period.
But...but it is not genocide now. Native Americans hold elected seats in our government. Indians proudly serve in our armed forces. We have a long way to go, but I don't think anyone can call Euro-Native relations today in 2011 genocide. Furthermore saying the entire continent is now tribal land is ignoring history. While eminently regrettable that Euro-Americans did kill, imprison, rape, etc. the native inhabitants of much of North America, the fact is that they did and we have to live in the world that has created. Saying that all of North America is now tribal land is like saying Alsace-Lorraine is still German land. Wars and conquests have lasting effects, even if we don't like them. Red Butte no more belongs to the Havasupai than Strasbourg belongs to Germany. Strong, even sacred ties, sure. But historical status doesn't equal modern reality.

It is the single word that describes what was done to Native Americans as an entire continent was taken and the Native American survivors were placed in the original concentration camps---reservations.

In some cases yes - forced marches, guards at the towers on dozen acre reservations I would qualify as a concentration camp. I would find it much harder to say that the New Mexican pueblo reservations, or the Navajo Nation, or dozens of others that encompass large portions of traditionally used land as concentration camps.

There are many who dispute that the Nazi extermination vs. Jews was not 'genocide' and didn't happen. Our history books avoid the ugly truth---I remember reading about the 1849 gold rush to California in high school and how thousands went West and 'settled' in California. What was never mentioned was that thousands of Native Americans were slaughtered as miners invaded their homeland and went for gold.

Which is a huge oversight that needs to be corrected. Have you read "1491"? That is a truly amazing book, in my opinion.

Red Butte outside Tusuyuan it a sacred site and the location of religious ceremony and is within spitting distance of one of the proposed mines. I know many get weary of hearing Native American leaders claiming that 'this place is sacred.' It is a concept that is hard to accept by those whose goal is domination of the natural world instead of harmony with the natural world.

But why is it so much more egregious to have something that you dislike located withing sight of something that another group of people view as sacred as opposed to going down and treading without True Knowledge through something that is sacred to the same group of people. The Havasupai were the gardeners of Indian Gardens. There were sacred locations where bunk houses sit, people urinate, lay their tents, leave their trash, and copulate. Why is hiking/backpacking into a sacred location "better" than mining within visual distance of a sacred site? The Havasupai were kicked out of Indian Gardens specifically to make way for tourists in the canyon - they weren't evicted from the rim of the Canyon to make way for uranium mining. Why is one better than the other if you are using solely a social/emotional perspective?

If you proceed as if you have the right of dominion over the Natural World, it is a mindless task to destroy and take what is your right. If you appreciate that you are a part of the Natural World, you know that everything is indeed sacred. Artifical boundary lines drawn on a map have no weight and a statement that 'no tribal lands will be mined' is meaningless.

Meaning is in the mind of the beholder. I think you'd be surprised how close you and I are in ideas, actually.

In the Christian mythology, Adam and Eve were expelled from Paradise and mankind was left to struggle to survive; the opposite view is that we are now in Paradise and the World around us contains all that we need if we stay in balance and walk in harmony.

And I believe this world is hard and we scrape by as best we can until we die. We are living here poorly, but we do what we can to survive. Only then will things truly change. Unrelated to theology but entirely related to what we're discussing - in the long run, it doesn't matter one dang thing what we do; whether we mine uranium here or not, whether we drive a hybrid or a gas-guzzling SUV. The earth will heal after we gone. The only thing that we change is our experience upon this earth, making our time better or not, and how long the world will take to heal after we go extinct: 20,000 years, 50,000 years, 500,000.

P.S. That link does work now - interesting read. Thanks!

PageRob wrote:Have you read "1491"? That is a truly amazing book, in my opinion.

Definitely a fascinating read everyone should check out but completely speculative. As the author states in the introduction, you can make history and anthropology say whatever you want it to say and "1491" is just one of it's voices.

The conditions that currently exist on Native American Reservations do indeed qualify as continuation of the efforts to eradicate Native Americans. By all measures, including poverty level, health status, alcoholism, drug abuse, suicide rate (especially among the young), despair and depression, and the lack of basic human necessities---Native Americans have been pushed aside and dismissed. Young Native Americans have the choice of staying on the Rez to keep their cultural heritage intact or to move off the Rez and assimilate in the larger society. When they leave, they become part of the cultural genocide, another long-term goal pursued by the American government to deal with the 'Indian problem.'

Indian children used to be taken from their homes and forced to live away from their family for years while all semblance of their culture was beaten out of them---they could not speak in their native lanaguage, dress in traditional clothing, or celebrate their religious beliefs. Even today, many Navajo children have to live in dorms far from their family if they want to attend high school (Holbrook High School). The nuclear family among the Navajo is torn apart as adults move to the cities outside the Rez to earn an income with the children left behind to be raised by grandparents, older siblings, etc

The Rez system moved surviving Native Americans onto territory that was considered not worthy of stealing by the European invaders---and was not capable of supporting the traditional lifestyle of hunting/gathering/subsistence farming. This left the Native Americans without a means of survival since there is no way to either earn an income (and participate in the cash-based economy) or provide via the traditional method. The Havasupai survived for thousands of years by hunting/farming the Inner Grand Canyon as well as wide expanses of the Rim---confiscation of their homeland for a National Park squeezed them onto a postage-stamp size 'Reservation' with the loss of places like Indian Gardens that had been farmed for generations. This tribe can no longer survive via traditional methods and instead charge fees and allow hikers into their community and their backyard----hikers come away condemning the tribe for the 'way they live.' If you don't believe that Rez conditions are horrendous, just spend a few days with the Havasupai. There is a forum discussion on the HikeAZ site on the murder of a tourist at Havasupai---a good number of comments made reference to the living conditions as if the Havauspai made some elective conscious decision to live in poverty with hiker toilets overflowing on their homeland. This tribe, which is on the verge of extinction, does not need the burden of uranium mines discharging wastes into their environment.

Based on 1990 census data, the Rez system has resulted in a poverty level that does not include the basic human necessities as a home to live in, running water, electricity, telephone service and plumbing. For far too many Native people in America, these basic amenities are simply not available. For example, 52% of Navajos lack complete plumbing facilities; over 81% do not have telephone service; and 54% of homes on the Navajo reservation are heated by wood (1990 Census). These examples indicate that Indian people, either on-reservation or living in cities nearby their reservations, are not achieving even approximate equality with the economic status of their neighbors. (from "Wealth, Success and Poverty in Indian Country," by Bambi Kraus May/June 2001 issue of Poverty & Race). Closing one's eyes and protesting that these conditions no longer exist and terms like genocide and concentration camps are not appropriate is to deny the current facts.

Hitler/Nazis studied the methods of the US government and how the Native peoples were eliminated and moved to Reservations. The Reservation system came first, then the Nazi concentration camps. When the US decided to jail Japanese citizens during WWII, one location was to build a concentration camp within a Reservation--on the Gila River Indian Reservation. http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=34537

To return the discussion to Uranium Mining, the EPA has been working with the Navajo Nation to correct the devastation wrought by the many uranium mines throughout Navajo Nation. A total of 250 sites have been identified as 'high-risk.' Some of the remediation efforts have included replacing homes that were built using the mining waste products---including stone and cement made from materials the Navajo took from the mines. This has been a source of a lot of the health impacts on those who did not work in the mines but who lived in the homes consturcted with radioactive wastes from the mines. When I make the observation that the Native American students in Page know about uranium mines, it is based on the widespread impact that uranium mining has had on the Rez. The extended clan system among the Navajo make it very likely that any given person has someone in their extended family impacted by uranium mining. That is closer to the truth than a flippant comment that the students are too busy text messaging to know about uranium mining.

The EPA website that discusses the Uranium Mining issues on the Navajo Nation:
http://www.epa.gov/region9/superfund/na ... anium.html
http://www.epa.gov/region9/superfund/na ... ug2010.pdf

There are not many speaking up on this forum on the issue of Uranium Mining as well as the conditions facing Native Americans. It looks like PageRob and I are having a conversation amongst ourselves. I've had my say. No more Uranium Mining.

Canyonram wrote:Based on 1990 census data, the Rez system has resulted in a poverty level that does not include the basic human necessities as a home to live in, running water, electricity, telephone service and plumbing. For far too many Native people in America, these basic amenities are simply not available. For example, 52% of Navajos lack complete plumbing facilities; over 81% do not have telephone service; and 54% of homes on the Navajo reservation are heated by wood (1990 Census).

I have no basis to debate with you on most of these issues, since I do lack a lot of information (although you have provided some which I will try to find time to read). I have to say, though, that in northeastern AZ, and western NM, many, many people heat with wood and they do prefer to do so. All throughout Apache and Navajo counties, both on and off the reservations, many people heat with wood. A favorite summer and fall family pastime is going and getting the wood, cutting and stacking it. I used to work at the wood stove store in Springerville, and a lot of people were getting rid of gas and pellet heaters in favor of wood, since it is so much cheaper. People building new houses were buying wood stoves, also.

Furthermore, I myself have lived without running water, electricity and phone, and would do so again. I have known a lot of Navajos, and I think that while there may still be a lot of sheep camps without utilities, most of these belong to extended families who also have homes near a town, with electricity. A lot of the elders love the sheep camp life, also. They tend to live to a ripe old age, too.

As for phone service, Navajos and Apaches can apply for a cell phone that is free. A lot of towers have been put up over the past few years, so that many people all over the rez can keep in touch.

I think although there are a lot of problems, the Navajo people are proud of their home. If you want, I will start asking around to my coworkers about some of these issues to see how they feel about them. More than half of my coworkers are Navajos. And very soon, I am going to have a school bus route on the Rez myself. So, I can talk to the people.

I tend to agree with you about uranium, and nuclear power. It makes me very nervous that the government is talking about switching to this. What are they going to do with the waste? What about accidents? What about transporting it? What about the mining, tailings, etc?

Canyonram wrote:The conditions that currently exist on Native American Reservations do indeed qualify as continuation of the efforts to eradicate Native Americans.

I have brought this up with some of my Navajo friends and they disagree with this statement - including highly politically active Navajos (one was invited to attend Barack Obama's inauguration).

If you don't believe that Rez conditions are horrendous, just spend a few days with the Havasupai.

Never been to Havasupai, but I have spent years in and around the Navajo Nation - herding and sheering sheep, camping out in the backcountry, spending nights in houses/hogans with no running water. I'm not sure why you think my thoughts and ideas about tribal life are based on books and beliefs. It is part of my life. Several Navajo friends over the past decade have declared me an "honorary Navajo" (a badge I wear with humor), and I have taken some of my Navajo friends into places even they didn't know existed on their land. I speak Navajo (though no longer fluently, I can still say enough to greet someone and get my truck out of the sand in the backcountry) I am intimately familiar with Rez life.

This tribe, which is on the verge of extinction, does not need the burden of uranium mines discharging wastes into their environment.

Okay, here is a fact we can deal with. If any uranium mine is planning on discharging their wastes onto Havasupai lands (or any other reservation), I am opposed to that mine.

Based on 1990 census data, the Rez system has resulted in a poverty level that does not include the basic human necessities as a home to live in, running water, electricity, telephone service and plumbing.

Neither does a lot of the world - is there genocide going on against a majority of the world's population by the 1st world?

These examples indicate that Indian people, either on-reservation or living in cities nearby their reservations, are not achieving even approximate equality with the economic status of their neighbors. (from "Wealth, Success and Poverty in Indian Country," by Bambi Kraus May/June 2001 issue of Poverty & Race).

Okay - let's extend this. If having a lower income level or a lack of economic parity means genocide, then would you agree that Italy is committing genocide against Slovenia? Slovenia has a GDP per capita $11,000 USD below Italy, despite a strong Italian influence on the culture. Some might even say that Italian culture is dominant over Slovenian culture in many ways. Austria (Slovenia's neighbor to the north) has a per capita GDP almost $20,000 greater. Both nations invaded Slovenia during WWII (far more recent than Bosque Redondo for example). Does that make the condition in Slovenia genocide? Because according to your definition of economic disparity and unjust military invasion in the past, it would meet the definition.

Closing one's eyes and protesting that these conditions no longer exist and terms like genocide and concentration camps are not appropriate is to deny the current facts.

From Wikipedia: The Random House Dictionary defines the term "concentration camp" as: "a guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc.", and, the American Heritage Dictionary defines it as: "A camp where civilians, enemy aliens, political prisoners, and sometimes prisoners of war are detained and confined, typically under harsh conditions."
Do early reservations meet the definition? Yes. Is the Havasupai reservation a "guarded compound for the detention or imprisonment of aliens, members of ethnic minorities, political opponents, etc."? I don't think so.
Let me make this clear: Modern reservations are NOT concentration camps. To call them such is an insult to previous reservation concentration camps as well as other true concentration camps past and present around the world - it cheapens the word. I don't know of any concentration camp in history where people paid extraordinary amounts of money to visit/stay/explore/gamble.

Hitler/Nazis studied the methods of the US government and how the Native peoples were eliminated and moved to Reservations. The Reservation system came first, then the Nazi concentration camps. When the US decided to jail Japanese citizens during WWII, one location was to build a concentration camp within a Reservation--on the Gila River Indian Reservation. http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=34537

Yes. And when was that again? Oh yes, before Native Americans could even vote. You are talking about the past. I am talking about right now. The conditions that Hitler studied don't exist today. And what about all the other reservations that didn't end up with Japanese concentration camps? What does that say? I think it says nothing - it is a straw man argument. The government wanted places away from the coast in harsh environments. If they thought that every reservation was a concentration camp, why not also locate one at Havasupai (bottom of the canyon makes it hard to escape, right?), or out in Monument Valley?

To return the discussion to Uranium Mining, the EPA has been working with the Navajo Nation to correct the devastation wrought by the many uranium mines throughout Navajo Nation. A total of 250 sites have been identified as 'high-risk.' Some of the remediation efforts have included replacing homes that were built using the mining waste products---including stone and cement made from materials the Navajo took from the mines. This has been a source of a lot of the health impacts on those who did not work in the mines but who lived in the homes consturcted with radioactive wastes from the mines.

I think this is something Yellow Dirt touches on - I want to read it, but haven't been able to get any feedback from anyone who has read it personally - just Amazon reviews.

When I make the observation that the Native American students in Page know about uranium mines, it is based on the widespread impact that uranium mining has had on the Rez. The extended clan system among the Navajo make it very likely that any given person has someone in their extended family impacted by uranium mining. That is closer to the truth than a flippant comment that the students are too busy text messaging to know about uranium mining.

When i make the observation that the Native American students in Page know almost nothing about uranium mines, it is based on actual facts talking to actual students - not extrapolation. The miners who were in their 20s and 30s back in the 1950s are in their 70s and 80s now, if they are still alive. These are grandparents or greatgrandparents who are not always as involved as the clan system would seem to indicate - especially since you can have dozens of grandmothers or grandfathers. Coupled with the aversion to speaking of the dead, if a grandparent dies and the parents don't talk about them or how they died, how are the kids going to learn about it? There is a strong tradition of not talking about bad things for just those reasons I mentioned.

There are not many speaking up on this forum on the issue of Uranium Mining as well as the conditions facing Native Americans.

Perhaps there should be a separate thread for the treatment of Native Americans?

Hi Liz,

The concern with wood-burning is the indoor air quality and lung damage resulting from breathing the fine particulates. The 'stoves' are often nothing more than 55-gallon waste drums rigged with stove pipe through the roof of a single-wide trailer. The other big danger is that even proper wood-burning stoves are used to burn not just wood but coal as well, something the wood burner stove is not meant to accomodate---very fine particulates are introduced into the air during coal-burning. Coal mining on the Rez has introduced more Navajo in the practice of coal-burning for heat and to mixing wood/coal in woodburners.

If you are really interested in the indoor air quality issues: "Navajo Coal Combustion and Respiratory Health Near Shiprock, New Mexico"
http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/j ... 260525.pdf
or http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jeph/2010/260525.html

Another study of interest is one conducted on the effects of wood-burning stoves on respiratory illness among Navajo children:
http://journals.lww.com/pidj/pages/arti ... e=abstract

Be careful about asking about health conditions on the Rez. You can talk all you wish, that doesn't mean they will trust you enough to reply. You (and I) are forever outsiders and many Navajo will only speak to trusted members of their own clan about some of the negative health impacts. They will suspect your motives as to why you want to speak of such things---they will distrust why you want to know such things and how you plan to use the information. Part of this silence has been a result of the abuse of their culture and the lies told to them over the years. You may get the exact opposite answer in reply to a question considered inappropriate.

Also, speaking of bad things is believed to bring them down on the person who talks of them. I experienced this many times while teaching Environmental Health and Safety issues to some of AZ tribes, including the Navajo. If I say to you, 'Drive carefully on your way to Flag, there's ice on the highway and you could have an accident.' I have just cursed you to have a bad thing happen to you on your drive home. Instead, I could say, "I saw ice on the highway to Flag." but should make no mention of any bad thing happening---the message will be filled in and understood. Never mention the Dead or speak about them. That is contrary to our culture where we display the dead in an open casket and everyone gathers around and shares stories about the deceased. You stand to insult someone if you press them for details on how their relative died, etc.

I'd rather not have Uranium mining, but I don't think the alternatives are much better in terms of environmental impact. I've seen plenty of what coal mining does to a place (not to mention the impact of coal burner emissions), and some of you may be aware of the big controversy out here over hydraulic fracturing to recover natural gas. Photovoltaic technology used in solar panels relies on substances that invoke similar mining problems. And while radioactive tailings are a blight that lasts half an eternity, the heavy-metal residues from all types of metal mining are there for ALL of eternity. I don't know what the right answer is, but I think about it a lot.

Impact of the uraninium mines on the Havasupai:
http://intercontinentalcry.org/a-birds- ... nd-canyon/

Havasupai Tribe recovers blood samples used in unauthorized genetic experiments:
http://www.bioethicsinternational.org/b ... f-its-dna/

PageRob, I posted the statement that "The conditions that currently exist on Native American Reservations do indeed qualify as continuation of the efforts to eradicate Native Americans." on Jan 12, 1:11pm. You responded on Jan 12, 5:19 pm "I have brought this up with some of my Navajo friends and they disagree with this statement - including highly politically active Navajos (one was invited to attend Barack Obama's inauguration)." I'm curious as how you were able to consult with some Navajo activist friends, have a discussion, and get back to the forum with your comments all within 4 hours??? I take great care to provide the supporting documentation for my opinions, digging up old links and going through saved documents. I'd be interested in your sources by either talking directly to your activist friends or having them join the debate here in the forum since I would be interested in hearing from politically active Navajos. Perhaps you can invite them to join???

I never stated that you were getting all your information about Navajos only out of books.

And yes, genocide and ethnic cleansing is occuring throughout the World. Why would you think otherwise? I'm puzzled that your concern is more about my choice of labels for the conditions on the Native American Rez system---with me using the term concentration camp than it is about the conditions themselves.

When I originally suggested that you query your Native American students about uranium mining, you stated "Actually, my students don't know jack about uranium or nuclear energy in general - but that'll change." That statement appears to me that you haven't really gotten around to teaching about uranium mining and haven't yet discussed in detail what they do or do not know. Your most recent statement seems slanted as if you have had detailed discussions with those same students: "When i make the observation that the Native American students in Page know almost nothing about uranium mines, it is based on actual facts talking to actual students - not extrapolation." As you know, the Navajo have an oral tradition with details passed down via word-of-mouth. Even though some of the original victims of the uranium mines are old, the experiences of the elders is passed down word-of-mouth---that is why I made the extrapolation that the students will know about uranium mining.

To big-load. I agree with you regarding the way to solve the energy dilema. Our modern industrial life-style is also a sure-fire receipe to destroy our planet. I sure like to power up my PC and watch my TV---our gluttony in regards to energy is going to come down on us hard in the very near future. The irony is that the uranium that the Canadian-based Dennison Mines is going to remove will be going to overseas market---it is not for our use here in the US but we get to deal with the mining wastes and the effects.

Canyonram wrote:Impact of the uraninium mines on the Havasupai:
http://intercontinentalcry.org/a-birds- ... nd-canyon/

Havasupai Tribe recovers blood samples used in unauthorized genetic experiments:
http://www.bioethicsinternational.org/b ... f-its-dna/

Thanks for the links!

I'm curious as how you were able to consult with some Navajo activist friends, have a discussion, and get back to the forum with your comments all within 4 hours???

One of my friends that I consulted works in my building. I walked down the hall during my prep period and asked him what he thought about the conditions on the Rez today being called genocide. He said no, not today.

I take great care to provide the supporting documentation for my opinions, digging up old links and going through saved documents. I'd be interested in your sources by either talking directly to your activist friends or having them join the debate here in the forum since I would be interested in hearing from politically active Navajos. Perhaps you can invite them to join???

He's sort of a technophobe - not sure if he'd join in here, especially since he's not a hiker. My less politically active friends are more techno-friendly (and are hikers to boot). They might sign up. No guarantees however...

I never stated that you were getting all your information about Navajos only out of books.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

And yes, genocide and ethnic cleansing is occuring throughout the World. Why would you think otherwise?

I don't think that genocide isn't real in the world today. Of course genocide is happening today, right now, as we type these words. I asked specifically about a situation in Slovenia, however.

I'm puzzled that your concern is more about my choice of labels for the conditions on the Native American Rez system---with me using the term concentration camp than it is about the conditions themselves.

I feel that you are misusing labels that are very emotionally charged and tend to impart a certain view to the reader/listener, regardless of what the actual situation is. I am a scientist. I prefer specificity. To me, I would not use the terms "concentration camp" or "genocide" without it meaning something very specific - guards at the towers, fences, taking people out and shooting them just for their race. Using the term "genocide" or "concentration camp" without those very specific things occurring is (to me) like using the word "conflagration" when you're talking about a single lit match.
I am also a writer, so I believe in choosing words carefully and picking words to have certain effects. See my next paragraph below for some examples of what I would say about the situation.
To assume that I don't care about the welfare or condition of things on the reservation would be inaccurate. As my same friend said, "Life is hard." To see power lines going by ranch houses when I know that those same ranch houses have no electricity strikes me as extremely unfair, unjust, and exploitative.

When I originally suggested that you query your Native American students about uranium mining, you stated "Actually, my students don't know jack about uranium or nuclear energy in general - but that'll change." That statement appears to me that you haven't really gotten around to teaching about uranium mining and haven't yet discussed in detail what they do or do not know. Your most recent statement seems slanted as if you have had detailed discussions with those same students: "When i make the observation that the Native American students in Page know almost nothing about uranium mines, it is based on actual facts talking to actual students - not extrapolation."

I believe you misunderstood my initial statement then. I know that they "don't know jack about uranium or nuclear energy" because as a teacher it is considered standard practice to test for prior knowledge (other teachers on this site can support this). This can be from discussions (where a student told me that NGS was a nuclear power plant) or through testing - where knowledge is supposed to come out without the intervention of another individual (i.e. they aren't going to be worried about me as a bilagaana and outsider prying about family history). The results show that they do not know enough about energy in general, including nuclear energy and nuclear power generation.

As you know, the Navajo have an oral tradition with details passed down via word-of-mouth. Even though some of the original victims of the uranium mines are old, the experiences of the elders is passed down word-of-mouth---that is why I made the extrapolation that the students will know about uranium mining.

I can conduct an experiment this week to determine who is correct here, actually. "Watch this space."

Our modern industrial life-style is also a sure-fire receipe to destroy our planet.

No doubt!

The irony is that the uranium that the Canadian-based Dennison Mines is going to remove will be going to overseas market---it is not for our use here in the US but we get to deal with the mining wastes and the effects.

But they get the spent fuel rods at least! ;)

If you wish to comment to the Arizona Dept of Environmental Quality on the proposed Denison Uranium Mining permits:

Deadline for public comments is January 14th at 5pm
Send your comments to Arizona Department Of Environmental Quality
Air Quality Permits Nos.52522, 52790 & 51803; Aquifer Protection Permit No. 52718
Email: tb4@adeq.gov
For more info call toll free: 1800-234-5677

Printed materials including draft permits: http://www.azdeq.gov/environ/air/permits/denison.html

Additional information and action:

Center for Biological Diversity’s info and online comment letter: http://action.biologicaldiversity.org/p ... n_KEY=5430

Map for the Haul routes: http://www.indigenousaction.org/wp-cont ... routes.jpg

Sierra Club’s info and online comment form: https://secure2.convio.net/sierra/site/ ... on&id=5411
You can forward a detailed message via their form directly to ADEQ.

http://www.indigenousaction.org/uranium ... nd-canyon/

Info from the Grand Canyon Trust: http://www.grandcanyontrust.org/news/20 ... nd-canyon/

Arizona Daily Sun Article: Uranium foes: Where’s the benefit?
http://www.azdailysun.com/news/local/ar ... 13696.html

The Daily Sun (Flagstaff paper) has an article summerizing the deficiencies discovered during an inspection of the current Denison mine that is already in operation posted online Jan 16. 2011. The Arizona Department of Environmental Quality (AZDEQ) will write good reports but then will be loath to take action---the last thing this agency wants to do is get involved in legal action against an offender. This is another reason why the Uranium mines should be denied permits---AZ is not provided with an oversight regulatory organization that will take strong legal action to halt an offender.

For the Article 'Mining on the Honor System' in the Daily Sun Jan 16, 2011: http://azdailysun.com/news/local/articl ... 4b4ae.html

Just finished reading the article myself and was going to post here as well! It sounds like some of the violations are not uranium related at all (light switches and fire extinguishers, etc.), but some are quite serious (patched containment ponds and lack of a sump pump). These are pretty serious violations and hopefully the state does more than just fine Dennison $5,000 - they need to take action on these things.
The same front - page area has an article about what I was talking about (way back when canyonram accused me of being a shill for the mining company): uranium is already in the ground and contaminating groundwater. Furthermore, we can't differentiate between contamination from a mine site and naturally occurring uranium, according to the USGS. That leaves any attempt at enforcement on a groundwater quality permit tenuous at best.

On another interesting note, I have found an apparently unclaimed uranium deposit somewhere in the 4 corners area. Guess who's going to be filing a mining claim!?