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Nick and I most likely passed by Missy and her owner as we were descending Mt. Bierstadt on Sunday. They summited a while after us and then got into trouble on the sawtooth. Looks like animal cruelty charges will be filed against the owner.

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2012/08/15/d ... bierstadt/

I see it so often that folks are way up on a trail with a dog who is clearly struggling and they are still moving away from the trailhead. If Missy was in that poor of condition, her owners should have turned around long before she was unable to walk on her own. It just goes to show how unobservant many people are of their pets, their environment and the people around them.

That being said - it was a week. It sounds from his story like he made one phone call and gave up - that's not what he would have done if it had been a child or person on the mountain, and that's not what he should have done for his dog (particularly since he put the dog in danger in the first place).

Now I'm going to go and kiss my puppies' feet and be thankful that they're in my safe hands...

@writelots
Amen, Wendy....

writelots wrote:I see it so often that folks are way up on a trail with a dog who is clearly struggling and they are still moving away from the trailhead. If Missy was in that poor of condition, her owners should have turned around long before she was unable to walk on her own.

That wasn't the case here....The dog was doing fine until he got into an area that was like traversing the 4 peaks. There was no way he could of backtracked. But he shouldn't have taken her there to begin with obviously.

What's pathetic is that most jurisdictions force the licensing of the animal... There should be a mechanism in place to license the owners. If it can't be proven their IQ is higher than the dog's, they don't get the animal...

The problem with dogs on Trails and inattentive people is, that alot of people don't think to check their dog's paws as they go and by the time they notice there's a problem, it's way too late. Usually dogs won't show symptoms of paw damage until it's gotten extreme.

I'm guilty, I did that once with my Basset mix, first time around the Pool for the season and I forgot how bad the Cool decking rips up his paws. He was a mess for a week. Never saw a limp, just blood on the deck. When dogs are "up", they just don't feel it. He felt it for the next 7 days though....I felt terrible, memory loss sucks.....

At the same time, I would never take my dog on a rocky trail at all, much less one like that. If I can't walk a Trail barefoot, then the dog doesn't go....Kinda like a hot sidewalk in June. But that's just me..... ;)

Why is there no "dislike" option?
Ellen for president!

Outdoor Lover wrote:If I can't walk a Trail barefoot, then the dog doesn't go....

There isn't a single trail in AZ I'd hike barefoot But, then, this isn't the nude hiking thread ;)

I take my dog on trails - but due to local restrictions, it's hard to get her out often enough to toughen up her feet. So I have a pretty hard limit on how far we go depending on terrain. She did the Mt.Baldy loop in the White Mountains without issue (soft ground). In the desert, I don't take her more than 4-5 miles. Of course, if I asked her, she'd say that she'd go anywhere anytime any distance. That's why owners have to be so aware - you're right, the dogs don't tell you until it's way, way too late.

And Bob - the dog had to have been experiencing trouble before the difficult area or else it would not have been completely immobilized at that point. It just doesn't happen in a mile - just like hot spots and blisters it's a progression. The dog just wasn't complaining. Now, if some of my beginning hikers were more like that, I'd be happier (but much less popular as a hike leader ;) )

writelots wrote: And Bob - the dog had to have been experiencing trouble before the difficult area or else it would not have been completely immobilized at that point. It just doesn't happen in a mile - just like hot spots and blisters it's a progression.

I know the trail and what happens after the summit where it gets nasty. The dog most likely experienced all his problems within that mile or less. There were probably 50 or more dogs that summited and descended without any problems that day. Just like most dogs can do 80 percent of the motherlode....its that one mile and a half from Browns Saddle to Browns Peak and across to Peak 4 that would stop most.

Reaching the summit is optional, but getting down is mandatory paraphrasing a famous mountaineer.
8 days? I guess I was raised differently than Mr. Ortolani, and I'm glad a 112-lb. shepherd mix doesn't have it out for me.
I don't think this guy should have placed himself at risk of death for a dog any more than I think he should have done so for a hiking partner if the you-know-what hit the fan. However, another maxim is "turn back at the first sign of trouble."
Yet another lesson and reminder is hopefully conveyed to the rest of us who are responsible hikers.

<<the dog had to have been experiencing trouble before the difficult area or else it would not have been completely immobilized at that point.>>
Exactly, Wendy. A dog owner shouldn't take their pooch on long, rough hikes if they can't recognize such symptoms and/or the dog hasn't been on such a long, rough hike so as its owner has experienced the possibility of such an eventuality.
I'm glad that HAZ'ers treat their dogs properly. Heck, I wish I had Bruno's life: sleeping most of the day, going for runs at oh-dark-thirty, hiking with Bob, and chewing on household items that my owner doesn't even know about. And...being owned by a responsible person who looks after me.

Jim Lyding wrote:to have been experiencing trouble before the difficult area or else it would not have been completely immobilized at that point.>> Exactly, Wendy. A dog owner shouldn't take their pooch on long, rough hikes if they can't recognize such symptoms and/or the dog hasn't been on such a long, rough hike so as its owner has experienced the possibility of such an eventuality..

Again the problem wasn't the length of the hike....or recognzing sysmptoms...it was the terrain after the first 3 miles. It was not recognizing/understanding the changing terrain or picking a horrible route or not doing enough research(although he did have rope to lower the dog). If you read anything I wrote, I'm not defending his actions. But there is so much misinformation out there. I would never have taken my dog there....but dogs including big dogs have done even the Sawtooth traverse. But most people would advise against it. Most people don't fault him for leaving the dog to make sure he and his friends teenager got out ok with the approaching storm. Its what he failed to do after that was inexcusable and sickening.

rlrjamy wrote:Its what he failed to do after that was inexcusable and sickening.

100% agree...

I thought about this last weekend on Quandary Peak (14.2 kfeet). There was a continuous line of people, many with dogs. Some of the dogs were leashed, most were not. One of the unleashed dogs changed status after it chased two mountain goat kids. Interestingly, the owners of that dog had previously denied it was theirs (I asked because at some point it had gone beyond sight of them). Some of the dogs had no problem with the conditions, others didn't fare so well. A few were suffering from the sharp rocks. Others were losing enthusiasm for the climb (one got carried up the last thousand feet). I guess my point is that Missy's owner is probably less of an outlier than some people would like to think, since just during those few hours on that one mountain, I saw a handful dogs that didn't belong there or were accompanied by seemingly careless people.

@big_load
There was a dog that needed to be carried down from there last week. Luckily a guy had a huge backpack and voluteered to carry the 65 pd dog..the owners(young girls) were smoking illegal substances and.....well lets just stop there....

Here is another one from a diferent route on Quandry...also from last weekend. http://www.summitdaily.com/article/2012 ... ofile=1055


I hiked with this dog on Quandry...he would summit sometimes several times a day and is credited for saving lives on Quandry in a snowstrom...he passed away last year......http://hikearizona.com/photo.php?ZIP=72799

@rlrjamy Yeah, I saw some crazy stuff. There were two girls, about 10 and 8 who hiked pretty much the whole way alone. They were part of a large, separated party, and none of the adults were tracking them. They had blisters before 12k feet, and we pointed that out to one of the adults, who told us it wasn't his problem. His part of the group reached the summit without realizing that the girls had stopped at 13.5k, having run out of water and both had multiple symptoms of altitude sickness, including headache and nausea. Members of our group were helping them when their parents finally got up. We impressed on them the importance of getting down, and they said they would after a short rest, but I don't know if they did. Only a few members of that large party carried any gear at all. I thought a lot about whether to intervene further, including the possibility of carrying those kids down. I hope they got out OK.

rlrjamy wrote:

Jim Lyding wrote:to have been experiencing trouble before the difficult area or else it would not have been completely immobilized at that point.>> Exactly, Wendy. A dog owner shouldn't take their pooch on long, rough hikes if they can't recognize such symptoms and/or the dog hasn't been on such a long, rough hike so as its owner has experienced the possibility of such an eventuality..

Again the problem wasn't the length of the hike....or recognzing sysmptoms...it was the terrain after the first 3 miles. It was not recognizing/understanding the changing terrain or picking a horrible route or not doing enough research(although he did have rope to lower the dog). If you read anything I wrote, I'm not defending his actions. But there is so much misinformation out there. I would never have taken my dog there....but dogs including big dogs have done even the Sawtooth traverse. But most people would advise against it. Most people don't fault him for leaving the dog to make sure he and his friends teenager got out ok with the approaching storm. Its what he failed to do after that was inexcusable and sickening.

I assuredly wasn't taking a shot at you my friend! We will have to agree to disagree about recognizing symptoms of a dog having trouble. Many dogs will do their best to hide symptoms of trouble, but anyone willing to take their dog on a rough (if not long) hike should be keeping an eye out for trouble whether it's the dog's behavior or the terrain, and turn back at the first sign of such. A dog's hiking history is also a factor. A dog's owner could gain a false sense of security if the dog had done many rough hikes before. This goes for people as well. Just because someone is a very strong hiker does not mean they won't run into trouble. One should always pay attention to how one's fellow hikers and their 4-legged friends are doing.

@Jim Lyding
I agree stuff happens....rough hike or not. Sunday I sprayed 3 liters of water to help cool down a dog in the McDowells. There were 2 guys and three dogs who were doing a 4 mile mile hike in 80 degree weather on an easy trail. The owner of the dog in trouble tried carrying out the dog and the dog took a chunk out of his arm. He called the authorities and they told him to sit tight and they would help them out. They were only a half mile from the TH.

As far a disagreeing to disagree....I disagree with your turning back at first sign....because at that point he would have put all three of them in more danger. I was there.... I saw the storm clouds ...I know the route if you backtrack from where they were they all were at greater risk....should they have been there...def not..and I've said that more than once.

<<I disagree with your turning back at first sign....because at that point he would have put all three of them in more danger. I was there.... I saw the storm clouds ...I know the route if you backtrack from where they were they all were at greater risk....should they have been there...def not..and I've said that more than once.>>
I think I understand now that this isn't an in-and-out hike, and the map I saw online clarifies this. I'm programmed to think that a hike to a high peak is going to be like that. I guess I should have clarified (after actually looking at a map) that the best thing to do is to get back to safety via the safest way possible at the first sign of trouble. Be Good! and post some more Bruno pics.

I am not currently a dog owner - and my cats don't hike - but I can certainly understand the appeal of having a dog to take on camping trips, to the lake, and nice mellow hikes. But I do not understand the mentality of people who feel like they must take their dog anywhere and everywhere they go.
Awhile back, two dread-locked rasta/hippy types walked into my store with a pitbull and asked where our pet supplies were ... I said "well, first of all the dog can't be in the store" - anybody want to guess what their response was? Say it with me folks - "it's a service dog". Obviously complete b.s., but just like when I worked at Target stores will not argue with people who say that (even though the dog has no vest or identification as a service dog at all), so anyone willing to straight up lie can get away with it - makes me so mad! Next day I am hiking up the BA from Indian Garden and who do I see - dreadlocks and pitbull! I am thinking you have got to be freaking kidding me - a dog in the Canyon! Met up with Ranger Taylor at mile-and-a-half and told her about it ... she said the Rangers were aware of it, and would speak to them at I.G., but they were already down there ... with a dog ... Grrrr!

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