Scary NRA Militia types?!!

[pixelfrog]

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

[Jeffshadows]

They say that Saddam used to quote Scarface...

[Strand]

I suppose, seeing as how buying a fully automatic rifle without all the necessary red tape and enormous price tag is about as illegal as you can get in this country, the black market would adjust in the same way it traffics other goods. Probably bring the firearms in from abroad and "redistribute" them. I say abroad only because automatic AKs and FALs to my knowledge, aren't manufactured in significant quantity in this country (could be wrong).

Or worse yet, someone is modifying semi auto civilian firearms to fire fully auto. Which is even more fodder for banning legally owned and responsibly used firearms from us law abiding citizens.

It all gives me a headache.

As for that 1903 Springfield, I think I saw some restoration manuals on Brownells or Midway. It's a keeper for sure!

[azbackpackr]

It's pretty obvious to me that the way to stop this black market drug war is to LEGALIZE drugs in the U.S.

The drug war has also created a situation in our law enforcement agencies where a lot of our tax dollars are being spent on ever-more-expensive toys for the "jack-booted thugs" (cops) to play with. Armored personnel carriers, Humvees, helicopters, airplanes, high-tech this and that, weapons, etc., plus increased number of personnel. The list goes on and on, and we taxpayers are paying through the nose for all that stuff. The DEA's War on Drugs is directly responsible for the drug wars and cartels, because the more the U.S. has cracked down on illegal importation, the more the prices have risen for various drugs over the years. Nobody was killing anyone over $75 kilos, but they sure will kill over $2,000 kilos, just for an example. And the prices went up because of the increase in law enforcement. The border fence will drive prices even higher if it is successful.

Another thing this War On Drugs has done is to make doctors very leery of the Feds. Many doctors will no longer prescribe proper amounts of painkillers to anyone at all, regardless of how deserving they might be due to illness or injury. The doctors also now seem to be in the business of very rudely offending their patients--many doctors will imply or state that they think you are some sort of an addict because you might feel the need for more painkillers. Make no mistake about it, doctors have been brainwashed about addiction problems, and they are also running scared, because they are very easy targets for the jerks in the DEA who find them easy marks. After all, doctors don't shoot DEA agents. Doctors are terrified of losing their licenses, so they try to comply.

I'm not saying addiction problems don't exist amongst various types of patients, but there is an extreme over-reaction to this issue.

[Jeffshadows]

As for that 1903 Springfield, I think I saw some restoration manuals on Brownells or Midway. It's a keeper for sure!

Yes! Whatever you do, make sure you keep that thing. We had a lot of antique weapons my grandfather brought back from Europe during WWII stolen years ago and it's a true "You don't know what you had until it's gone" experience. I tried like heck to bring a Russian officer's model Kalishnakow under-folder that I acquired over in Iraq back with me. It was beautiful, amazing wood and pristine Cyrillic etchings on the receiver; fired like a champ, too. I carried that thing everywhere with me for a year since there was never a shortage of 7.62x39 anywhere in country. I called every number I could find in the ATF trying to figure out how to do it legally. I was even willing to weld the barrel and remove the sear, etc...Nothing. Leaving that thing there was like cutting off an arm. All most of these laws do is bend the people who go out of our way to obey them over.

The drug thing is even easier. At some point it became an addiction worthy of altruism and empathy. We don't generally hold "addicts" responsible for their depraved and antisocial behavior. Instead of spending billions trying to stop the stuff from getting here, why are we not addressing the need?

[JimmyLyding]

There's an article in today's Tucson Citizen about U.S. guns being used by Mexican drug gangs

[Jeffshadows]

It's the same info they had in the LA Times last week...

[JimmyLyding]

It did look pretty familiar. I'm wondering when the narcotraficantes are going to start using RPGs.

[Jeffshadows]

Let's hope never. Those things are godawful...

[nonot]

It's pretty obvious to me that the way to stop this black market drug war is to LEGALIZE drugs in the U.S.

The drug war has also created a situation in our law enforcement agencies where a lot of our tax dollars are being spent on ever-more-expensive toys for the "jack-booted thugs" (cops) to play with. Armored personnel carriers, Humvees, helicopters, airplanes, high-tech this and that, weapons, etc., plus increased number of personnel. The list goes on and on, and we taxpayers are paying through the nose for all that stuff. The DEA's War on Drugs is directly responsible for the drug wars and cartels, because the more the U.S. has cracked down on illegal importation, the more the prices have risen for various drugs over the years. Nobody was killing anyone over $75 kilos, but they sure will kill over $2,000 kilos, just for an example. And the prices went up because of the increase in law enforcement. The border fence will drive prices even higher if it is successful.

Another thing this War On Drugs has done is to make doctors very leery of the Feds. Many doctors will no longer prescribe proper amounts of painkillers to anyone at all, regardless of how deserving they might be due to illness or injury. The doctors also now seem to be in the business of very rudely offending their patients--many doctors will imply or state that they think you are some sort of an addict because you might feel the need for more painkillers. Make no mistake about it, doctors have been brainwashed about addiction problems, and they are also running scared, because they are very easy targets for the jerks in the DEA who find them easy marks. After all, doctors don't shoot DEA agents. Doctors are terrified of losing their licenses, so they try to comply.

I'm not saying addiction problems don't exist amongst various types of patients, but there is an extreme over-reaction to this issue.

What type of propaganda is this nonsense. Prescription drugs have nothing to do with the drug cartels...when's the last time a doctor has prescribed cocaine for a headache? Medical marijuana is even grown in the US under a permit system.

All painkillers are manufactured within the country, which is a huge business, and doctors are not "underprescribing" anything these days...in fact they are prescribing drugs for such non-existent diseases such as ADD and I-want-to-play-playstation-some-more-and-my-parents-are-spineless-wimps-that-let-me-so-I-don't-do-my-homework disease.

[Jeffshadows]

It's pretty obvious to me that the way to stop this black market drug war is to LEGALIZE drugs in the U.S.

The drug war has also created a situation in our law enforcement agencies where a lot of our tax dollars are being spent on ever-more-expensive toys for the "jack-booted thugs" (cops) to play with. Armored personnel carriers, Humvees, helicopters, airplanes, high-tech this and that, weapons, etc., plus increased number of personnel. The list goes on and on, and we taxpayers are paying through the nose for all that stuff. The DEA's War on Drugs is directly responsible for the drug wars and cartels, because the more the U.S. has cracked down on illegal importation, the more the prices have risen for various drugs over the years. Nobody was killing anyone over $75 kilos, but they sure will kill over $2,000 kilos, just for an example. And the prices went up because of the increase in law enforcement. The border fence will drive prices even higher if it is successful.

Another thing this War On Drugs has done is to make doctors very leery of the Feds. Many doctors will no longer prescribe proper amounts of painkillers to anyone at all, regardless of how deserving they might be due to illness or injury. The doctors also now seem to be in the business of very rudely offending their patients--many doctors will imply or state that they think you are some sort of an addict because you might feel the need for more painkillers. Make no mistake about it, doctors have been brainwashed about addiction problems, and they are also running scared, because they are very easy targets for the jerks in the DEA who find them easy marks. After all, doctors don't shoot DEA agents. Doctors are terrified of losing their licenses, so they try to comply.

I'm not saying addiction problems don't exist amongst various types of patients, but there is an extreme over-reaction to this issue.

What type of propaganda is this nonsense. Prescription drugs have nothing to do with the drug cartels...when's the last time a doctor has prescribed cocaine for a headache? Medical marijuana is even grown in the US under a permit system.

All painkillers are manufactured within the country, which is a huge business, and doctors are not "underprescribing" anything these days...in fact they are prescribing drugs for such non-existent diseases such as ADD and I-want-to-play-playstation-some-more-and-my-parents-are-spineless-wimps-that-let-me-so-I-don't-do-my-homework disease.

I have to agree. Now we have "Fibromyalgia" all over the TV, etc.

What's more, hospitals can get sued for tracking drug-seeking patients or asking drug-seeking identifying questions, now. Our docs might know that the ACCHS patient that just came in is a known drug-seeker, but can't deny the person care due to the EMTALA Act; the result is our state taxes paying for him or her to get a fix. Does this mean there are not legitimate cases of systemic pain coming in the door? ...Absolutely not; but there's a reason why Rush, Ozzy, and scores of other celebs have been busted for painkiller abuse lately - they're way overused and far too readily available and don't carry the same stigma as being a drunk or a crack-smoker...

[JimmyLyding]

I also believe that medication in general is overprescribed in this country. Someone's kid has ADD? He or she may have just that, however too many children are diagnosed with it because they go straight home from school to sit in front of the boob tube, Playstation, or a computer. Kids need to be outside enjoying their neighborhood, friends, and the outdoors within reason.
My auntie has fibromyalgia, and it is definitely real. She's been a nurse (ICU, surgery, ER, the works) for 30 years on Maui, and I've seen what it does. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.
I've seen the pill-popping problem in some of my younger friends, and that pumpkin is a pumpkin. Prescription painkillers tend to be cheap, very addictive, and build one's tolerance very quickly. All of that is a horrible combination, and very reminiscent of crystal meth.

I do agree with Elizabeth that the prohibition of certain drugs in this country plays an exceptionally large part in the suffering that Mexico is currently enduring. However, not all illegal drugs are grown south of the border. I recently saw a bunch of hoses in the Mazatzals, and I'm pretty sure that the Tonto National Forest isn't using them to water the bushes in that canyon. For the record we didn't see the hoses watering anything of note.

[Jeffshadows]

The argument stands that, as long as there is a market, someone will fill it...

[sclarkie]

I'm a law enforcement officer and I'll give you a good one that, unfortunately, rings pretty true: 'When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.' The farther you get from civilization, where we all like to be, the more true this becomes. For those of you that have never encountered the bottom-feeder types our society has to offer, I hope you don't have to. I'll say this- pepper spray and unarmed self-defense tactics are excellent for their applications; but put one of these turds 20 feet away from you, armed with a gun he stole yesterday, and all the pepper spray and karate lessons in the world aren't going to help you if he is determined to do you or a loved one harm. I fully support (and instruct) the Arizona CCW program for two reasons: It provides basic firearms safety and legal awareness for those that choose to carry; and it allows them to carry discreetly, so as not to offend or frighten those choose not to. As far as the losers that go out to shoot up their old TVs and any nearby saguaro, report them if you can, avoid them for sure. My 2 cents, thx for listening.

[PaleoRob]

Well said!

[Jeffshadows]

Get a Samuari sword and carry it around with you while hiking. Guns or not, I wouldn't mess with someone carrying a sword around...

[JoelHazelton]

Not a bad idea at all, Jeff. I guess looking completely insane would get people to leave you alone...

[writelots]

On the drug topic, because I have a recent gripe... Has anyone had the experience lately where they go to the doctor to talk about some problem or another and see what might be done to start on the healing process, and all they want to do is give you a perscription and send you out the door? I mean, I'd like to explore some exercises, maybe diet options, what other things might be causing this that I can change in my lifestyle? I don't want your nsaids and codine laced happy pills - I want to find a way to make my body work right. And I can't find anyone who wants to work with me! I'm sure it all goes back to liability and insurance and profitibility and all that crap, but I need a doctor I can really talk to. I am not one of those "go for the pill" patients, and I think we need to change this mentality or we'll breed generations of individuals who have no understanding of their body, no responsibility for their health and who depend on chemicals to get them through each day! AK!

[Jeffshadows]

On the drug topic, because I have a recent gripe... Has anyone had the experience lately where they go to the doctor to talk about some problem or another and see what might be done to start on the healing process, and all they want to do is give you a perscription and send you out the door? I mean, I'd like to explore some exercises, maybe diet options, what other things might be causing this that I can change in my lifestyle? I don't want your nsaids and codine laced happy pills - I want to find a way to make my body work right. And I can't find anyone who wants to work with me! I'm sure it all goes back to liability and insurance and profitibility and all that crap, but I need a doctor I can really talk to. I am not one of those "go for the pill" patients, and I think we need to change this mentality or we'll breed generations of individuals who have no understanding of their body, no responsibility for their health and who depend on chemicals to get them through each day! AK!

This is a very complicated topic, of course. I think most people here on HAZ are in complete agreement with you, or would profess to be. The problem isn't the doctors. Their reimbursements are way down, they have almost no voice in society any longer, and they're tired. Oh, before I go any further, don't give me the "They have it good" argument because that is simply meretricious nonsense. Almost all general practice docs nowadays make far less than counterparts with PhDs and JDs. They put themselves into hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and destroy their personal lives to attain a license and specialty...and, for what? For patients who ignore everything they say? For patients to sue them for looking at them incorrectly? For society to be inundated with prescription drug ads and patients more concerned with how their unit works than the plaque building up in their arteries?

Look at it this way: You're a primary care physician for Mr. Jones. Mr. Jones comes in every year and every year his health is worse and he has clearly ignored all of the lifestyle counseling you have given him. Mr. Jones calls you incessantly and demands pills for his self-diagnosed RA pain and won't leave you alone until you give them to him; or, worse yet, will leave and find another doctor who will. You give him the pills because you need patients coming through the door to pay your loans and still have a little left over for your family to live on when you actually are home to visit with them. Trouble is - 99% of the patients coming through the door are just like Mr. Jones.

As long as Americans want a quick, painless, and easy fix to every problem and refuse to take personal responsibility for their own health, doctors will give them what they want for their own survival's sake. Anyone who blames doctors for this state of affairs has simple taken leave of his or her senses. Blame Merck, etc....

[TwoWeims]

In response to writelots:

From your signature, I see you are in Tucson. I would recommend looking up Dr. David Hancock. He is a Chiropractor who also specializes in nutrition and natural medicine. He has a clinic in Tucson and Prescott. I have been seeing him for about six months with dramatic results.
He also has a radio show on KVOI 960 on Saturday at 5:00 pm.

I am not related to, nor do I work for Dr. Hancock. I am just a very happy customer.

Perhaps this deserves a topic of its own...

[Jeffshadows]

Yea, there was another thread that azbackpacker had running about this, maybe we can merge them...