HikeArizona.COM

Had my first encounter with one of those new motorized E-Bikes on Trail 100 yesterday. Guess the intent of these bikes is to have a small electric motor to "assist" the rider up short, steep sections of trail. The bikes have a max speed of about 20 MPH. I really got ticked off when I saw this guy plowing down the trail on what in my mind is essentially a low powered motorcycle.

Has anyone else bumped into these bikes yet? From the cursory bit of research I've read these bikes exist in a grey area and haven't been banned yet because they are so new to the market.

SpiderLegs wrote: ↑Apr 22 2020 9:07 pm Wonder who is behind the letter writing campaign?

I'd say that about 30% of Americans are grossly obese and have type 2 diabetes; those people do not have the physical conditioning to hike or ride a mountain bike, but they could probably ride a motorized bicycle. I suspect that will answer your question.

DixieFlyer wrote:I'd say that about 30% of Americans are grossly obese and have type 2 diabetes;

Under 10% of the population has diabetes.

However, the percentage of Americans over the age of 60 has increased by more than 35% in the last decade and continues to grow. This is the likely the demographic to blame.

DixieFlyer wrote:but they could probably ride a motorized bicycle

On streets maybe... but on trails like the AZT?
That's some pretty wishful thinking, bordering on delusional.
If it's all a person can do to waddle from their car to grocery store-provided electric cart, no way they will be biking on trails, electric bike or not.

@SpiderLegs
Who's behind the campaign? Hmmm, e-bike manufacturers maybe?
They'll make money on the sales for a period of time, until the fad is over, the sheen wears off and more e-bikes are in Self-Storage than are actually being ridden 'on trails'.

As for saving the environment? Sorry, it is not ecologically as sound as they have been touted to be.
How will more e-bikes help the environment? Let's take a look:

Ok, so a very small amount of purchases will be for an e-bike to REPLACE driving a car to work... that's it, that's the only saving.
Now for e-bikes replacing a regular mountain bike, it means MORE use of resources... sure, less HUMAN resources (muscles) but don't kid yourself, electricity to charge the bikes has to come from somewhere and a lot of that still comes from fossil fuels.
But no matter, they will still hype them as ecologically sound.

I followed the link provided by one of the commenters to a limited study which suggests:
It has been shown that e-bikes do improve health, even in young riders as surveyed in the limited NIH - BYU study of younger riders

Limited study? Only 33 participants from19 to 28 years of age. Digging deeper through their 'study' they make other assumptions which are a real stretch, in some cases limiting the participants even more, down to 13 and 8. Hmmm, possibly to provide more support for their faulty study?

At least in their "Conclusions" they used the word suggests quite liberally, as in this study suggests... ok, so it's still a flimsy theory then?
Seems to me a case of pre-conceived conclusions along with a healthy dose of confirmation bias

Oh yeah... I'm now 70 years old, I have numerous back, hip knee and ankle issues, and sure, I likely won't be riding my mountain bike on trails much from here on, but that wouldn't change with an e-bike... for me it isn't an issue of not enough leg muscle/strength but the physical jolting not conducive to a herniated disk.
However, I CAN hike the trails!

@Tough_Boots
Was that a polite way to say, we can also blame the boomers for this one?

PRNewswire/ -- The global Electric Bike (E-Bike) Market size is projected to reach USD 46.04 billion by the end of 2026. Recent advancements in lithium-ion batteries will contribute to market growth. According to a report published by Fortune Business Insights, titled "Global Electric Bike (E-Bike) Market Size, Share & Industry Analysis, By Propulsion Type (Pedal Assist, Throttle), By Battery Type (Lead Acid, Lithium-Ion, Nickle Metal Hydride, and Others) and Regional Forecasts, 2019-2026," the market was worth USD 7.68 billion in 2018 and will exhibit a CAGR of 24.5% during the forecast period, 2019-2026.

Maybe the new trail maintenance standard should be one downed tree every half mile, just an easy step over. ;)

hikeaz wrote:USD 46.04 billion

@hikeaz

$46,040,000,000????? That's a lot of zeros. Are you quoting from the same FLAWED report CannondaleKid somehow managed to wade through?

@friendofThundergod
Maybe even more frequently than that...you know, to prevent erosion. ;-)

SAMBA wrote: ↑Apr 23 2020 9:18 am

hikeaz wrote:USD 46.04 billion

@hikeaz
$46,040,000,000????? That's a lot of zeros. Are you quoting from the same FLAWED report CannondaleKid somehow managed to wade through?

I do not know about anyone else's source(s) unless they state it/them.
My reference here> https://www.fortunebusinessinsights.com ... ket-102022

Some countries... Kalifornia included ... are offering sizable trade-in allowances, rebates, tax-breaks and/or subsidies to e-bike purchasers. Power companies also like them and offer incentives....(mostly because they need to be CHARGED and are also stumping for federal $$ to 'go greener'). I wonder by none of these offer a rebate on pedal-only bikes?

What white paper/sources are you using to derive at your 'flawed' adjective?
I would think that as it is a 'projection', we will need to wait until 2026 to say if it was flawed or not.

friendofThundergod wrote:Maybe the new trail maintenance standard should be one downed tree every half mile, just an easy step over. ;)

I knew there was a reason I always liked you. Always coming up with a solution.

@SpiderLegs
He was being nice, he really wanted a downed Boomer every half mile.

Those big numbers account for the entire ebike industry-- not just mountain bike ebikes. The road intended ebike market is a much bigger portion of the industry with even larger potential growth.

Those numbers just aren't useful in regards to mountain biking ebikes.

@hikeaz
Just scroll up a few posts to CannondaleKid's last post. I don't know what link he referrenced, but I got the impression it was such a tedious read that he figured he was doing his HAZ peeps a favor by not posting the link.

Tough_Boots wrote:Those big numbers account for the entire ebike industry-- not just mountain bike ebikes. The road intended ebike market is a much bigger portion of the industry with even larger potential growth.

As an aside, I was forced to take a safe driving course a few years ago that was taught by a police officer. During the break I asked him about the new e-bikes and the bikes that people were attaching lawn mower type engines to. He joked that those were know as "DUI bikes", one way for people with suspended or revoked driver's licenses to get around without technically violating the terms of their suspension.

SpiderLegs wrote: I was forced to take a safe driving course

@SAMBA
To be clear, the study I dug into did not reference anything about current or estimated future e-bike sales.

Sorry... the link won't show up in the post, but if anyone wishes to dive in on your own, feel free to PM me.

I'll throw in a few bits here...
Objective:
The purpose of this pilot study was to compare e-bikes with conventional bicycles. More specifically, this study sought to answer 2 research questions:
1. What proportion of the health benefits are retained when using an e-bike as compared with using a conventional bicycle?
2. What are the attitudes and beliefs toward e-bikes after riding one and how do those compare with attitudes and beliefs toward conventional bicycles?
In particular, this study aimed to understand attitudes and beliefs regarding personal factors that may prevent active transportation events.

Note: This is my paraphrasing of the testing procedure:
* Individuals desiring to participate first completed an informed consent form and then received an email link to a baseline survey with items relating to demographics, physical activity level, cycling history, as well as attitudes and beliefs about biking.
* Participants were provided a heart rate monitor, GPS device, bicycle helmet, basic instructions related to bicycle safety and bike path etiquette, and directions to follow a generally flat 10-mile bike path.
* They ride the 10 miles on a dedicated bike path with a conventional bicycle and provide email feedback designed to measure their experience, attitudes, and beliefs of riding the conventional on the study route.
* Then roughly 6 days later they ride the same 10 miles on a dedicated bike path with an e-bike and again provide email feedback designed to measure their experience, attitudes, and beliefs of riding the conventional e-bike on the study route.

At the risk of being too simplistic, in My Opinion the study found exactly what common sense would tell me, it takes more physical effort to ride a conventional bike than riding an e-bike. So while there will/should be a health benefit riding an e-bike over walking or being a couch-potato, obviously there should be a stronger health benefit riding a conventional bike over walking OR riding an e-bike.

So... if they really think the population will all of a sudden become healthier by riding an e-bike, they are truly delusional.
Just getting more of the population to get out and exercise, whether walking, biking, etc., will do a lot more to promote health than hyping/promoting e-bikes.

-
Best breakdown I could find.. although category names are ambiguous. Among pedaled bikes it appears that MTB is by far a better seller than true road bikes, but if one were to lump in 'transit/fitness' bikes that collective would be largest.

Although this small study found the percentage of E mountain bike ownership (per respondents) is/was 27.8% and road 39.5 - longtails 12%. There were sundry other categories with minimal statistical impact.
https://www.calbike.org/wp-content/uplo ... Owners.pdf

Shopping...?

CannondaleKid wrote: ↑Apr 23 2020 1:44 pm @SAMBA
To be clear, the study I dug into did not reference anything about current or estimated future e-bike sales.

Maybe this ? > https://www.calbike.org/wp-content/uplo ... Owners.pdf

@hikeaz
Nope... it was a National Institutes of Health in conjunction with Brigham Young University (Utah) study.

If I'm the only one that questions $47,040,000,000 then it's safe to say that there was a time when a $1,000,000,000 was considered serious money.