Snakebite Treatment

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Aug 15 2006 7:51 am

Well, I just thought it might be time for a review. I just recertified as a Wilderness First Responder, through Wilderness Medical Associates. I have their new book right here. I wanted to start this thread because I have noticed that despite at least 15 years of advice to the contrary, a few people still insist on carrying suction devices for snakebite.

The WMA book says: "Splinting the bitten extremity may help reduce pain and tissue damage, but is an unproven treatment and should not delay evacuation.... Do not apply ice or arterial or venous tourniquets. Do not apply suction or incise the wound. Suction devices, even the more modern versions, have been shown to be ineffective and possibly harmful.
"In anticipation of swelling, remove constricting items such as rings, bracelets and tight clothing.... Closely monitor any splint. If you can, mark the progression of swelling up the extremity. Make a line and write the time on the skin with a pen. This information will be helpful in the decision to use antivenin, and in deciding how much will be necessary."

It also says that, if possible, walking your patient out (or yourself, if alone) may be the quickest way to advanced medical care. Also, it is not necessary to kill and bring the snake to the hospital. Pit viper antivenin is the same for all members of that family of snakes. The antivenin has to be carefully prepared, so if you can call ahead to let the hospital know you are coming it will avoid delays. (I'm told that many hospitals in AZ may not even have antivenin, and you may be facing an air evac once you arrive at one of these hospitals.)
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Vaporman · Post by **Vaporman** » Aug 15 2006 3:39 pm

I had heard this before which is funny considering how many people religiously bring those suction devices thinking they have it made. Guess the only thing you can bring for a snakebite is long pants and a sharpie.

cass1234 · Post by **cass1234** » Aug 15 2006 5:06 pm

Ihave never heard that before, and I feel like a real sucker because I just spent $15 on one!!! Where were you a week ago? Do you mean to tell me that they are completely useless?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Aug 15 2006 7:42 pm

Not much to worry about anyhow, snakes aren't into biting people. Nearly all incidents are due to poking at the snakes intentionally.

Nevertheless, it's amazing they still sale those suction kits, anything for a buck I guess. This isn't new information (as mentioned). Ck put out an article 4 years ago stating the same
http://hikearizona.com/dex2/article.php?AID=15
and I was certified long before that with the same info too.

Glad you posted though, cause it obviously needs to be restated.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Aug 15 2006 8:37 pm

Cass1234, perhaps you could take that groovy snakebite kit back to the store, ask for your money back, and tell them why you don't want it. It is the merchants who are promoting this, and people's fear and lack of knowledge keeps those things on the shelf. The more we can get the word out and educate people the better.

Also, while I have the soapbox, it's a good thing to keep yourself certified in basic first aid and CPR, and read up on wilderness first aid. Outward Bound has a reliably good book, for example. The Outward Bound Wilderness First Aid Handbook, by Jeffrey Isaac. The Wilderness Medical Associates course I took is generally very expensive, unless you are a member of a group that will pay part of the fee, but it's a fantastic course--72 hours.

There was one posting where a guy said he finds the suction devices useful for removing bee stings. However, a credit card scraped against the side of the stinger that's stuck in your skin is a good way to get the stinger out. If you try to pull it out with your fingers you may squeeze more bee venom into yourself. Also, bee stings are not really dangerous for most people, just painful. However, I do carry diphenhydramine (benedryl) and an epinephrine pen in my 1st aid kit when leading hikes, not for myself, but in case someone else needs it.

cass1234 · Post by **cass1234** » Aug 21 2006 10:58 am

By the way, I did return my kit and exchange it for an LED flashlight. I feel it may be more useful to me. Besides, I have lived in AZ my whole life and I have heard a lot of stories of rattlesnake encounters, but I have never heard of anyone actually being bit. Thanks for the info.

te_wa · Post by **te_wa** » Aug 21 2006 3:13 pm

LED's cause cancer!

just kidding :twisted:

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Aug 22 2006 9:46 am

It seems that a fairly good percentage of people who are bitten were actually PLAYING with the snake. Get what you deserve, I guess!

SuperstitionGuy · Post by **SuperstitionGuy** » Aug 23 2006 3:35 pm

Here is what I posted a while back about my experience with the Extractor kit:

Reading the previous posts on this subject I notice that many of you do not carry the Extractor Snake Bite Kit. I have used mine numerous times while guiding groups to treat bee stings and to suck and clean puncture wounds. Wouldn't consider hitting the trail without one. Will I ever need it for a snake bite? Probably not. But if I ever do I surely know how to use it. As I hike solo now most of the time I consider it very cheap insurance.

And ---- I still carry mine and always will if for nothing more than to suck clean puncture wounds. I now live in Utah where there is not as much to stick or bayonet me. But as I go off trail all the time as a search and rescue tech I want to clean my wounds to avoid infections.

Still looking for Garrett Bardsley by the way for those of you that have read my previous posts.

Please keep this wonderful website going. Its the best of the best!!!

wetbeaverlover · Post by **wetbeaverlover** » Aug 23 2006 5:24 pm

You might as well shake your rattle dance around the fire and summon a witch doctor before using one of those snake bite kits. cutting and sucking out the poison is IMPOSSIBLE. It's 2006, I'm amazed they still sell this things.

azbackpackr · Post by **azbackpackr** » Aug 24 2006 7:31 am

I have never tried them for insect bites or stings, as I no longer have one. So he's probably not pulling our collective legs on that one, it may work quite well. Credit card or other such thing with an edge can be used for scraping off the bee sting. If you try to pull it out with your fingers you'll just squeeze more of the venom into yourself. Also I carry benedryl (diphenhydramine) and an epi pen with me if I'm guiding a group, better safe than sorry. However I just learned at my recert that I should be carrying TWO epi pens if I'm going to carry epinephrine at all! Egad! This is for the re-occurrance of anaphylaxis, which will happen with a lot of patients.

For puncture wounds the accepted treatment is to irrigate and clean wound very well, using clean water and a small syringe you can easily carry in your kit. Then treat with providone iodine and triple antibiotic ointment, and bandage. However, again, if this extractor has worked without causing tissue damage, fine with me. I just am not going to carry one because it's not at this time considered correct treatment by WMA. That could change, you never know. Every time I recert something has changed.