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It's a start; I think the noise requirement is overly generous...

96 decibels is still awfully loud. It seems as if the OHV community is not having many issues with these new laws, but all it takes are a small # of idiots and there can be a lot of destruction.

As with most regulations, it's absolutely pointless unless there's somebody there to enforce it. And I assure you, there's not.

Hate me if you want, but I am an ATV rider. I have been riding them since I was seven years old and don't plan on stopping any time soon. I am one of the responsible riders that actually stay on roads and adhere to current state laws. I use my ATV for trail riding, backcountry camping, and accessing remote hiking locations. I believe this use sticker will be good for the state because all of the revenue created goes towards regulating and enforcement of OHV use. This revenue will assist agencies like Arizona Game & Fish and the National Forest Service to control abuse. Many ATV riders, including my self have our ATV's street licensed, which allows us to ride on all forest roads, including horizontal numbered roads. The revenue created through street licensing of ATV's typically only goes to various state projects. Horizontal numbered forest roads are those that are maintained on occasion. Vertical numbered roads are only non-maintained jeep trails. The use sticker that the DMV will be issuing will only allow the rider to drive on vertical numbered forest roads. Full street licensing will still be available to individuals that can meet all of the requirements.

We use ATVs for our work, but that is about the extent of my knowledge of ATVs. I see tons of them up in Utah...

As with most regulations, it's absolutely pointless unless there's somebody there to enforce it. And I assure you, there's not.

I can count on one hand the number of times I've seen law enforcement in the national forest

When I worked in Alpine for the FS, we had one (1) law enforcement officer for the entire ranger district. Worked Mon-Fri 9-5. Anytime else...eh, you might be out of luck (or in luck, if you're a criminal). I know of several areas in the southwest where there are NO LEOs assigned what-so-ever. Sad state of affairs.

ATV riding is fine when it's done responsibly. Years ago before it was the "in thing" I had buddies that were big into it and went out with them once or twice. My aggravation is with those who insist on being unsafe and wrecking the countryside.

I don't think anyone would have a problem with ATVs if they would stay where they're supposed to be and follow the regulations. That doesn't seem too hard to me ...

US society no longer has any concept of responsibility, it's all about who you can blame.

My bank is failing...it's that damn economy, not that I engaged in giving shady loans to people with poor credit! Help me jeebus!

desert spirit wrote:I don't think anyone would have a problem with ATVs if they would stay where they're supposed to be and follow the regulations. That doesn't seem too hard to me ...

lemme tell you about the time(s) ive seen a dude in cut off Levi's, and flip flops doing about 25mph around a blind corner with guess what sitting on the gas tank? a baby!
witnessed this 2x on 172a, Roger's Trough rd.

saw a different hick driving one on the rim with not 1 or 2 but THREE kids hangin off the thing. none had any helmet, eye protection, or anything of the nature. and for what its worth, fr300 requires all of the rules of any main hiway. sheesh!

"there's one born every day"

nonot wrote:US society no longer has any concept of responsibility, it's all about who you can blame.

My bank is failing...it's that pumpkin economy, not that I engaged in giving shady loans to people with poor credit! Help me jeebus!

What does this have to do with the topic-at-hand??

It has everything to do with the topic at hand

nonot wrote:US society no longer has any concept of responsibility, it's all about who you can blame.

I couldn't agree more. Nobody takes responsibility for their own actions anymore. Right up there with responsibility is respect. Our society generally doesn't have any respect for authority, other people, nature, and often not even themselves. Until next year, it is generally legal to drive your ATV absolutely anywhere on the national forest. There are not currently laws which restrict motor vehicle use to roadways. That changes in 2009 (officially) with the implementation of the new travel plan. A plan that became necessary because too many people have not taken responsibility for their own actions and respected such ideals as "leave no trace"

If people would take responsibility for their own actions and have respect for people and things even when they don't necessarily agree or understand them, 90% of our problems would be solved.

While I generally agree with the sentiment (Although, I'll admit being confused about it, at first), I think you guys are giving these people *way* too much credit. Most of the real offenders I've encountered have no concept of the fact that they're doing anything wrong at all. They think it's perfectly fine for them to go around tearing everything up in sight with careless abandon. There is no concept of "right" or "wrong" involved; no cycles of though process devoted thereto. I guarantee you they never give it a second thought after they're done, save for something like: "Did you see how much air I got jumping that rock with all those stupid squiggles carved into it?!" or "Too bad I missed that squirrel with my tire!"

This is fundamentally about how much people can take; and it's a deeper issue prevalent across our entire society. When I look at the Catalinas every day, I see wonder, joy, happiness, and a desire for none of that to change. Most people see a place where they can go and get snow to bring it back to town, go get firewood without a permit, go and drink while blasting music, go take their dirtbike and get their rocks off while putting everyone around them in danger, etc. Many among us have a genuine lack of understanding about what it means to be visitors on this planet; rather, they believe themselves to be landlords. "What's in it for me?" has replaced "Land of the Free" in modern America.

Jeff MacE wrote:This is fundamentally about how much people can take;

nonot wrote:My bank is failing...it's that pumpkin economy, not that I engaged in giving shady loans to people with poor credit!

Jeff MacE wrote:What does this have to do with the topic-at-hand??

nonot wrote:It has everything to do with the topic at hand

I couldn't resist.

I'm not saying anything about this topic or making a point per se. I just thought those lines kinda went together. It was funny to me.
I'm too much of a realist to get up in arms about these topics. People are stupid. There's no need to lose sleep over it. I've witnessed countless idiots on ATV's and countless responsible people too. I just hope the idiots get what's coming to them, and then I move on with my life.

Fine. You guys win. Go have fun making light of it. I'm glad I have better things to do...

Jeff MacE wrote:Most of the real offenders I've encountered have no concept of the fact that they're doing anything wrong at all. They think it's perfectly fine for them to go around tearing everything up in sight with careless abandon.

I agree. The ones I've talked to see the desert as a wasteland rather than a place of beauty and wonder. They don't think they're doing anything wrong because they're wrecking something they consider to be already wrecked.

Jeff MacE wrote:Most of the real offenders I've encountered have no concept of the fact that they're doing anything wrong at all. They think it's perfectly fine for them to go around tearing everything up in sight with careless abandon.

This totally illustrates the point. There is no more accurate definition of irresponsibility than not having a clue. Everything you do has repercussions, and if you don't consider them before you do something, then you are irresponsible. Doesn't matter if you're taking out a mortgage you can't afford to pay or if you're tearing up a muddy meadow in your quad.

"I didn't know (or ever consider) I was supposed/not supposed to do ... x,y,z" is not an excuse. It's called shifting the blame and not taking responsibility. Period. :bdh:

You're not getting it. They don't think they're doing anything wrong. They're not shifting the blame anywhere.