HikeArizona.COM

Hello again.
I used hike az to get information about Trail # 67 Towel creek,From east.I would put a very big Caution on this Trail the information is WAY OFF ,The trip is 12 miles each Way not six,The terrain is very rugged,the cairns are there but intermittent.I am experienced in wilderness and back country.Getting accurate info is critical.I will have my com-padre post all the way points mileage etc. Needless to say that as a first Hike for a mixed college crowd it will not work.I am not meaning to be a ungrateful user of the site but do feel facts are what need checking and correcting. :bdh:

Everyone has their own opinions on difficult...what is difficult for one person may be a piece of cake for another. This site is to be used as a tool...people make mistakes. The main thing is to read the diclaimers on the site. It is a hobby for Joe and if there is an issue he'll fix it. But remember when anyone is in the wilderness they and only they are responsible for themselves.

Did you have and use a map?

here is the link and map from the US forest service that shows 6.4 miles http://www.fs.fed.us/r3/coconino/recrea ... k-tr.shtml

this looks like a hikebot posting... I would not expect that to be detailed, or even accurate... I think of the hike descriptions as teasers to raise our interests in a particular outing. I would never rely on issues that were of particular importance. The triplogs are more accurate representations of what people experience on any particular trail. and, mistakes can be made... review of a map before the outing gives me the info I care about... checking the mileage and elevations

bobatyc wrote:I will have my com-padre post all the way points mileage etc.

Accuracy is very important to me, I look forward to seeing this, post it up!

As stated in his bio, HAZ Hikebot posts FS, NPS, BLM and published data. The government data is known to be a little bit off. The Santa Rita trails are off by more than the others from what I've witnessed over the years. Yet still within 15% range worst case. The majority within speculation that you get between multiple sources of recording the data.

Considering this trail goes between Fossil Creek Road and the Verde River, it's hard to imagine it being that far off, though, unless it included a long road walk on Fossil Creek Road. There's a forest road a little further down that measures about 7 miles.

I did have and use Topo maps.I am not a Hike bot.As stated we as in my hike partner used his GPS to make sure the distances were ok or not! I wrote this to increase awareness .The purpose of my hike was to recon for a college group of mixed skills.The guy with me is experienced in the Andes ,I have lived and hiked in the State for 25 + years.I still regard Hike AZ as one of best overall hike info resources.The more people use it and feel able to have confidence in it the better.

Please add your comments and descriptions to a triplog for the hike. Most users will read not only the description, but many (or all) of the triplogs as it helps understand the varying views that people have on different hikes. As Joe said, please upload your GPS waypoints as this is truly the most detailed way for future users to get the most accurate distance measured.

The more people who add data, triplogs, comments, etc., the lower the error rate of data will be for future users.

Thanks for your input on this hike and your contribution to the site!

big_load wrote: it's hard to imagine it being that far off, though, unless it included a long road walk on Fossil Creek Road. There's a forest road a little further down that measures about 7 miles.

OK, so I looked a little closer. From where the FS shows the TH in its cartoon map to what Garmin calls Childs Power Road is 4.7 miles along Fossil Creek Road, making the total distance 12 miles to the river by that route. Is that how you went? I don't have my other maps nearby to look for alternatives.

We used the Trail #67 from trail head off Fossil Creek rd .Used the trail 100% .did not include parking area Opposite the gate.{ranch entry Gate }

This is a very difficult subject, IMHO. I remember maybe the second description I posted I rated the difficulty a '2' and Joe changed it to a '5' and set me straight. Now I tend to be very conservative and rate it harder than I feel it was just to be safe.

so true... my hiking partner constantly reminds me to quit inviting "regular" folks out on my hikes, and to never give my opinion of any hike. She feels my perspective is way too far off. Once again, a good reason to have an objective system in place to try to give some balance and objectivity. Mileage+ Elevation+ Grade= whatever. On the canyoneering hikes I think it is already clearly established that the setting is subjectively demanding... Of course, people could look at who the author is and get some idea of what perspective is being offered?

bobatyc wrote:Hello again.
I used hike az to get information about Trail # 67 Towel creek,From east.I would put a very big Caution on this Trail the information is WAY OFF ,The trip is 12 miles each Way not six,The terrain is very rugged,the cairns are there but intermittent.I am experienced in wilderness and back country.Getting accurate info is critical.I will have my com-padre post all the way points mileage etc. Needless to say that as a first Hike for a mixed college crowd it will not work.I am not meaning to be a ungrateful user of the site but do feel facts are what need checking and correcting. :bdh:

All HAZ users want accurate information. As stated in this thread the best way to get the correct info out is to post a triplog because it's directly linked to the hike.
A good example is the South Fork-Gold Ridge hike. It was written by Fritzki before the 2004 Willow Fire. He describes it as possibly the prettiest hike in the state, and I'm sure it used to be, but as of January 2009 it looked like it had a nuclear bomb dropped on it because of the Willow Fire and resulting erosion. Trail conditions are prone to change.

I believe that long-time (i.e. hopelessly addicted) HAZ users would tell you that HikeArizona.COM is not one of the best sources of information for hiking in Arizona, but by far the best source of info. It's not even close. This is because of the information shared by our fellow users. triplogs and photos will tell you a great deal beforehand.

I never trust the Forest Service's mileages, but being off by 6 miles tells me that we're talking apples and oranges.

Some hints:
*Always check the triplogs if you have any questions.
*If you still have questions then send a PM to someone who's already done the hike.
*If a hike was posted by the Hikebot then there's a good chance that the hike is not popular, and probably not popular for a reason.
*Keep using HikeArizona.COM because its features will become more familiar over time. Ask questions. There's a 99% chance of getting a response.
*You should take mileage, AEG, etc. with a grain of salt for any hike without a posted GPS route.

HAZ is a resource like any other. Get a second opinion. Check a map. I generally don't even read the descriptions on HAZ before going out on a new trail; instead, I'll look and see if there is a GPS route posted that is recent. Otherwise, it all goes down with topos. The human memory is an interesting thing. It puts landmarks into descriptions that were never there and tells you to zig instead of zag. I'm guilty of it, too. I recently went through my Pima description while hiking the canyon to make sure I didn't hose anything up. There are a few things I should add, actually...

FWIW, If you want to do anything other than hike super-established trails, then the best gift you can give yourself is to really learn land navigation and how to properly read and interpret a map...

Jeff MacE wrote:The human memory is an interesting thing. It puts landmarks into descriptions that were never there and tells you to zig instead of zag.

That's about writing my Capitol Butte - Southwest Ridge description went. The first time I did it, it seemed to be like there were dozens of class 3 scrambling sections. After hiking the route a couple more times, there are about 3 essential ones and an optional 4th.

bobatyc wrote:Hello again.
I used hike az to get information about Trail # 67 Towel creek,From east.I would put a very big Caution on this Trail the information is WAY OFF ,The trip is 12 miles each Way not six,The terrain is very rugged,the cairns are there but intermittent.I am experienced in wilderness and back country.Getting accurate info is critical.I will have my com-padre post all the way points mileage etc. Needless to say that as a first Hike for a mixed college crowd it will not work.I am not meaning to be a ungrateful user of the site but do feel facts are what need checking and correcting. :bdh:

I'd like to get the data corrected, please post your waypoints or route.

Mabe you could describe the route more?

Just tracing the trail on TOPO from the Hackberry Springs side road at about 34.43398 111.68888 to the river at 34.42084 11.78135, I get 7.74 miles one way . I did this hike a couple times several years ago, before GPS, it did not feel like a 20+ mile trip.

I have a GPS route for towel creek trail that is maybe 5 miles long, with about 1 mile after that to the ruins and about another mile to the river, so about 7-8 miles one way. Perhaps the OP got round trip confused with one way? It's something to think about, I've done the same before when glancing at the stats.

Besides which, it seems this trail is almost entirely an old road...is it really that hard?

Here it is attached, it's not mine, I'm basically copying it without permission.

There was a note that it ends 2 miles before the river, my stats say this was 6 miles. That would put the whole enchilada at 8 miles one way, not 12.