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chumley wrote:A permit system (free) must be implemented limiting the number of people who can use the area each day. Both at the springs and downstream where the road accesses the creek. It's the only way.

Sounds like your wish is coming true...this video mentions Fossil Springs will be going to a permit system.

http://www.azcentral.com/videos/news/lo ... /28831483/

@azdesertfather
I may have stated it as a personal wish, but it really is a simple fact. There are too many visitors and the impact of that visitation is destroying the federally designated "wild and scenic river". Whether I or you like it or not, the visitation must be limited. The only way to do that is via a system that limits/restricts the current open access. Reservations or permits are a common way to do that.

If there's a permit system to limit visitors I might actually go back there again one of these days

All that about over use and loving it to death, plus the SAR folks are down there several times a week. Maybe a permit system will screen out those who really should be hiking at the mall.

I also think closing the road from Camp Verde is another good option. Make it a minimum 5-mile hike to get back there. That may help limit how much alcohol is carried in, which I suspect is a contributing factor in many of the SAR calls.

chumley wrote:I also think closing the road from Camp Verde is another good option.

Closing Fossil Springs Rd @ Childs Power Rd would make it a 5 mile hike to the lower falls, but also make the lower sections of Fossil Creek "More Popular"

Fill in the gaps between Mazatzal, Fossil Creek, Pine Mountain, and Cedar Bench Wildernesses. Leave administrative access for the powerlines like the waterline road in the Kachina Peaks Wilderness does.

chumley wrote:Fill in the gaps between Mazatzal, Fossil Creek, Pine Mountain, and Cedar Bench Wildernesses. Leave administrative access for the powerlines like the waterline road in the Kachina Peaks Wilderness does.

Look for this to happen January 19, 2017, along with designation of The Oak Flats and The Santa Rita National Monuments.
$.02

@Sredfield
That would be nice. ;)

Standing Ovation if they go to a Permit System for Fossil...Another one if what Shawn says comes to Fruition also...It would be so Sweet to see these Places further protected!

We'll see how this one plays out. I'm all for it but I wonder how much the permit will cost and the number of people per day allowed. The USFS will have to police the area to ensure compliance, how will that be done? A full-time ranger or two X 7 days a week would cost some $$$.

whereveriroam wrote:The USFS will have to police the area to ensure compliance, how will that be done?

Aren't they there on pretty much all expected busy days anyways? Three summers of diligence paid for by fines from a strictly enforced permit system and we'll see all the trouble at Fossil go away.

Tough_Boots wrote:If there's a permit system to limit visitors I might actually go back there again one of these days

And I would become less likely to go now. Different strokes for different folks. I'm mature enough to understand the rationale behind it, but I don't have to like it or support it. The notion of having a permit to experience nature that are public lands just cannot be rectified in my mind, no matter how logical the arguments FOR that position may seem.

@Jason Cleghorn
I understand the sentiment... though I sure am happy that a permit system keeps the crowds and destruction to a minimum when I'm backpacking in a National Park. Most would be a disaster without them.

There is a real missed business opportunity in the Payson area for a water park.

Did they ever open up FR708 from Strawberry?

@Darth Stiller See Photo
http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=183&ZIP=409514
Closed between Fossil Springs Trail and the Waterfall Trail

I thought they said they were going to open that up after a year or so. Probably better not to. I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and take the long way around to try to do the Flume and Waterfall Trails one day.

Darth Stiller wrote:I thought they said they were going to open that up after a year or so. Probably better not to. I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and take the long way around to try to do the Flume and Waterfall Trails one day.

We chatted with the Ranger who was watching the upper TH parking lot last month. He told us that APS or was it SRP maintained the 708 road to the little power house, it cost +/-$1M a year too maintain. Now that the power house has been decommissioned the road maintenance is now up to the USFS. They don't have the $$$ to maintain it. S&R and local fire agencies have the key to the gate and will use the road when they need to, however it sounded like it will NEVER be open to the public again. For $1M a year in road repairs I can now see what the real motive was for closing the power house.

@whereveriroam

I sometimes wonder if the rangers sit around the office and see who can come up with the best stories to tell people. :whistle: