HikeArizona.COM

Fit Cities
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... /84492256/

Most fit
1) Washington D.C.
2) Minneapolis
3) Denver
4) Portland
5) San Francisco

Least fit
1) Indianapolis
2) Oklahoma City
3) Louisville
4) Memphis
5) Nashville

The complete report for phx attached.

I question the validity of the entire study when it reports that Phoenix has fewer than the recommended number of golf courses that a population our size should have.

Yeah and parks units are under half?

SoMo is huge and there are tiny parks all over. Must be some other criteria.

I totally believe the park stats. It's awful finding playgrounds for kids in Phoenix.

I wonder if some of the park statistics aren't climate based. (Including dog parks).

In most of the country, the high season for park usage is summer. That's just not the case here due to heat. And when the weather is more pleasant in the winter, days are short. There are fewer after school trips to the park when it gets dark at 5pm.

chumley wrote:The complete report for phx attached.

I question the validity of the entire study when it reports that Phoenix has fewer than the recommended number of golf courses that a population our size should have.

In the South, I'd park at a trailhead and see zero cars. Many trailheads here are packed. The fitness difference(personal appearance, attitudes, atmosphere) between even Phoenix and the South is LIGHT YEARS different.

Phoenix is PHFAT because our city is terribly designed. It is too spread out, and people don't walk. They take the bus or drive everywhere. There are also few stairs to climb. We stay indoor when it's considered hot, and because it's a dry heat, we drink more soda and sugary drinks than other folks in the US. Plus, eating fast food and Mexican food (sorry JuanJaimeIII) doesn't help.

Phoenix is fat? This differs markedly from the women I see on Camelback and to a lesser extent Piestewa. Also, I tend to see in-shape people at the Whole Foods near the Baltimore, the Sprouts on Glendale at 16th, and around where I live. Are you telling me that I do not live in a part of town that is typical, for The Valley?

Jim_H wrote:I tend to see in-shape people at the Whole Foods near the Baltimore, the Sprouts on Glendale at 16th, and around where I live. Are you telling me that I do not live in a part of town that is typical, for The Valley?

I hope we don't find out what is "typical" at the pool party.

gummo wrote:I hope we don't find out what is "typical" at the pool party.

That may be difficult as the swimming pools per capita is below average here in Phoenix. :roll:

If you go to Sprouts or Whole Foods anywhere you will see more fit-looking people. In Flagstaff, go to Sprouts, then go to the Fry's over on Switzer Canyon Rd. and compare. Compare also what you see in their baskets. But also neighborhoods are different, as Jim noticed. In the poor neighborhoods you'll see a higher level of diet ignorance: baskets full of sodas and sugary processed foods.

azbackpackr wrote:baskets full of sodas and sugary processed foods.

If strictly talking about weight control, it's all about the calories, not sugar or processed food intake. I lost 145 lbs simply by counting calories and never changed the type of foods I ate. I literally lost weight eating big macs and fast food.

My family (most of who struggle with weight) hates it when I bring this up, because it doesn't fit the "dieting" narrative they are told to lose weight. I've seen them cut out soda and sugar from thier diets, but most of them still lose very little weight if any.

Does eating greens help? Sure because they have a better calories to volumn ratio compared to sugary and processed food and you're bound to get full quicker, but in the end, it's about the calories. You can eat whatever you want, you just have to eat less of it. They HATE the idea that they have to eat less and track calories.

Now, if you're talking about overall health, then I will concede that my diet is not "healthy" one bit. :-)

@DallinW
I got suckered into going to one of those vegan cult movies once. I'd never seen so many fat people in a movie theater! There are some absolutely terrible foods that are vegan. And apparently if you don't enjoy a little fish, chicken, pork or beef, you need to eat a feces ton of potato chips and oreos. So yeah, I'd say there's something about quantity vs quality.

I find it interesting that across from the club where I work out there is a Whole Foods and I noticed down on 20th St and Highland in PHX there is an LA Fitness right next to a Whole Foods. The combined parking lots were both full.

I think folks are more mindful of what's good/not good for them but we all know being fat is not necessarily a good thing. I lean toward moderation myself. Some folks just don't care for whatever reason but it is a choice. Taking care of your health, however, IS most important but following thru with that can be difficult sometimes.

@DallinW

but in the end, it's about the calories

And its also about "calories in calories out" if you are going to eat them, you better be working them off after :wlift:

tibber wrote:Some folks just don't care for whatever reason but it is a choice.

This is largely untrue (pun intended ;) ). Yes, if you eat too much and don't exercise you may gain weight. But there are a ton of mitigating factors. Some people have a genetic predisposition to gain weight that makes it very difficult to keep the pounds off (admittedly, that seems to be a fairly small fraction, but it's not zero). Once you gain weight, your body fights very hard to keep you at that weight, by increasing your appetite and decreasing your metabolism when you lose weight (check out this study: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/02/healt ... -loss.html). And having the time and resources to exercise, cook healthy foods, heck even shop for healthy foods is something that is not available to a lot of people. In fact, being chronically stressed makes it very difficult to make healthy choices (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/21/magaz ... tigue.html).

Short version: many if not most people who are fat aren't choosing to be that way. It's a physiological/neurological process that's not much different from being addicted to nicotine. As a society, we don't blame people for not being able to quit cigarettes, but we look down on people who can't lose weight. If you or someone you know lost a bunch of weight and kept it off for the long term, that's great, but you are the lucky exception.

flagscott wrote:having the time and resources to exercise, cook healthy foods, heck even shop for healthy foods is something that is not available to a lot of people.

That is 97% crap.

People have the time and resources to do whatever the hell they damn well choose to do (with very few exceptions). It's a matter of prioritization, and most prioritize a lot of other things over the ones you list above.

chumley wrote:

flagscott wrote:having the time and resources to exercise, cook healthy foods, heck even shop for healthy foods is something that is not available to a lot of people.

That is 97% crap.

People have the time and resources to do whatever the hell they damn well choose to do (with very few exceptions). It's a matter of prioritization, and most prioritize a lot of other things over the ones you list above.

Did you read the NY Times article I linked to? It provides some pretty good scientific evidence backing up my point. And if you really think someone working 2 or 3 jobs, etc. has the time and resources to do "whatever the hell they damn well choose to do," then there's probably no information I can provide that will change your mind.

Plus, I didn't even mention the fact that if you're poor, it's cheaper to feed yourself on crappy food than the healthy stuff: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/1/6.short

I wonder if it occurs to thin people that often they are just naturally thin and its not actually because of any of their lifestyle choices and if they had been born with a different body they might be overweight no matter how much they exercise and map out their diet. And I wonder if this was the case-- would they would still feel qualified to publicly tell other people why they're overweight armed with nothing but their own experiences and base knowledge from a handful of articles online?

@flagscott
I don't disagree with either of the articles. I only disagree with the statement of yours that I quoted. I didn't say that it wasn't a challenge, or there aren't obstacles to doing it. You yourself stated that

In fact, being chronically stressed makes it very difficult to make healthy choices.

By that statement alone you seem to acknowledge that the choices are in fact up to the person making them, difficult as they may be.

It's great to understand why the choices are difficult ... it makes it easier to overcome the difficulties.

And to @tough_boots point, we all view things through our own perspective. Body types are different. I've long-since considered the human diet and nutrition to be one of the great mysteries of science. Because there are so few things that are the same from one person to another and there are so many variables. I'm no doctor and I would never feel any qualification to tell anybody why they're fat or skinny or whatever. I am aware that there are both physiological and psychological barriers that people face that are different than mine.

And while those barriers may produce different challenges than I face, I believe there are very few instances where they prevent people from prioritizing their own choices.