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Is it just a Coincidence that the same Area of West Clear Creek is closed for the 4th Year in a Row? Due to a "Fire"...

outdoor_lover wrote:Is it just a Coincidence that the same Area of West Clear Creek is closed for the 4th Year in a Row? Due to a "Fire"...

when was it closed last year?

@outdoor_lover
What would make the Pivot Rock fire and subsequent forest closure anything but a coincidence? Like it was set deliberately?

outdoor_lover wrote:Is it just a coincidence that the same area of West Clear Creek is closed for the 4th year in a row? Due to a "Fire"...

I love conspiracy theories!

BTW, what's the difference between a fire and a "Fire"?

Egypt Fire: July-August 2013
Lightning-caused
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/ ... RDB5432755

Pothole Fire: July 2014
Lightning-caused
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/ ... PRD3809168
http://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/coconino/ ... PRD3809888

2015?

Pivot Rock Fire: May 2016
Lightning-caused
http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC ... 502785.pdf

Lightning might be caused by chemtrails (somebody posted that on the zuckerbook, so it must be true?) but for now, I'm gonna go with "just a coincidence"

chumley wrote:Lightning might be caused by chemtrails

nah, man... its dragons. Winter is coming.

Tough_Boots wrote:when was it closed last year?

End of May, beginning of June I believe...I had to call the Coconino FS to see when they were going to reopen it as we had plans...Same Roads as this Year, 2014, and 2013, although some Years there were additional Roads...Seems like every time there is a Fire up there, (ie. 4 Years in a Row) Bear, Sundance and Shamrock are always Closed... I mean Seriously how many Times can you Burn the same Area Up?

JoelHazelton wrote:What would make the Pivot Rock fire and subsequent forest closure anything but a coincidence? Like it was set deliberately?

I actually made that Comment on the Juniper Fire Topic before someone decided to make this it's own Topic. I was elaborating on Randy's Statement....

I think it is a slick new ploy to be able to close areas of the forest for extended periods without incurring as much public wrath as with whole forest closures.

Makes me wonder also if they aren't just shutting these Areas to keep the Public out for awhile and using "Fire" as an Excuse to do it....

The Horse Tank Fire was last Year, but on the other side of the Highway. I know that they had Bear, Sundance and Shamrock closed last year though, because we got in right after it opened back up...I had to call to make sure we were going to be good... Maybe it was just a Controlled Burn so it didn't make Inciweb? I don't know, but I didn't learn about the Closure from here, I learned it on a Social Media Page that I'm on. Yes, chumley, I'm actually on a Social Media Page, but it's not Instagram... And "Fire" is something that they are using to Close the Forest. Whether there's actually a Fire or not, who knows sometimes, I'm starting to wonder...At least about that Area....

Fires are a fact of life this time of year in the Rim country. There are always fires up here, every single year, and for the protection of the public, they close the area during and after a fire. This is an annual issue and nothing at all unusual. May & June is quite simply fire season.

During a fire, the hazards are obvious. Plus the fire fighters don't need to be worrying abut the safety of the general public. Watching the public -- and there's a small percentage of tourists who I swear need babysitters -- takes resources (people, trucks) away from actually fighting the fire.

After a fire is out, there can still be hot spots (including still-smoldering holes where stumps used to be that you can step into), half-burned trees can come down, fires can restart from embers and take off, and, importantly, you can get helluva flash floods downstream -- even in unburned areas. You do not want to be downstream of a burned area -- particularly in someplace like West Clear Creek -- when the first good rain hits it.

Plus ... you really do not want to be in the area, because smoke. I live 20+ miles from the Pivot Rock fire, and we are currently downwind. It is extremely unpleasant -- enough smoke to burn the eyes, and it smells like burning cow chips. I am very glad I'm not closer.

(Pivot Rock has me a bit worried -- I'm watching it closely. There are not a lot of natural firebreaks between it and Payson, or between it and my home east of Payson, and they are forecasting single digit dew points, strong winds, and 100+ degree temps up here later this week. That is a prescription for explosive fire growth so I do hope they have it well under control by then.)

Edit: Typos

outdoor_lover wrote:The Horse Tank Fire was last Year

Not sure what that has to do with this topic as it's unrelated.

I think that the WCC watershed is one that is carefully watched. But it's just my opinion, and I have no factual data to support it. A big fire in the area could be devastating. The results could be the loss of what is a fairly unique riparian habitat and the potential for flooding that could have devastating effects on the canyon.

Small fires can cause large area closures. The topography of the canyon itself may be a factor for that. I have seen the FS close areas that offer little chance for escape even when there is no fire. Two examples are Milk Ranch Point and Promontory Butte. Because WCC has no roads that cross it, anybody recreating near the canyon edge has only one direction to exit. It's possible that the FS uses the potential exit routes as a factor when making closure decisions to protect public safety.

Setting a prescribed burn near the WCC drainage is likely a difficult option to get permitted due to the smoke from such a fire settling down into Camp Verde at night. That's a large community. But if lightning causes a fire that the forest can safely manage to help protect this amazing canyon, I'd personally prefer to see it closed for a few weeks every year than have it lost to a catastrophic fire because every small fire was immediately extinguished.

But if you think that the FS is lying about the existence of fire so they can prevent people from recreating there I have no response other than to say you are certainly entitled to your opinion. The FS is not exactly on my "most-respected-government-agency" list, but in my opinion, I think that's a bit of a stretch.

A healthy forest will burn every few years. I think they manage the ones on the south side of WCC pretty carefully and don't spread them across the roads, so a patch that burns one year will be next to another patch of land on the other side of the road that is overdue for a fire. It's kind of unusual for so many lightning caused fires to hit the same area, but I doubt its a conspiracy to keep that particular area closed. They also tend to be extra cautious in closing areas much larger than is needed for safety reasons. I would agree though that the forest service is "milking the fires". One reason is that fires are $$, the other is because they probably can't justify prescribed burns in some of the areas due to their proximity to towns.

I've hiked through some fire area closures (shhh!) after the burn has gone through and is just smoldering stumps and a few flames on spots, and it isn't much to be concerned about in terms of danger. It's just that....people are stupid and do stupid things and would hold the forest service accountable by jumping on top of a burning stump and getting their leg trapped and burned off, or go into the active burning area and nearly suffocate themselves on smoke, or something else idiotic.

A quick review of the forest order written for the pivot rock fire says it expires when rescinded or June 24th, whichever comes first. Hmmmm?

@ALMAL I'm pretty sure I heard that area reopened more than a week ago.

I had been planning to go there right before it was closed, so I had been following when it would reopen. I read a little more than a week ago that it was open again, but now I haven't had time to go back up there--maybe next week.