Your input on a 4 day 'adventure' in late January, Sections AZT?

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Mostly thinking out loud as I try to sort things out in my head. But I value your input.

Come the end of January I have five days to myself.

Am thinking about a backpacking trip.

I'm always overly optimistic/always overestimating my abilities. So a five day/4 night trip is probably too much. (The most I've done so far is 3 days/2 nights in the Mazatzals. In April.) I won't be in a rush. But still need a way to bail if necessary.

I've been training for the past few months now. Am up to 30 lbs on my back, two to three times a week, two to five miles per hike, with some small elevation changes. (Albeit in Phx, at 1500' MSL.) I think that I'm in reasonable shape. (Don't need the knee braces.)

I prefer the AZT to other trails because 1) it's well marked and fairly well maintained. 2) there's more realtime data about water since it's a popular trail.

I prefer a loop so that I don't have to bother someone to drive the vehicle home and then pick me up later.

I prefer something close to North Phx, driving-wise. E.g. I can drive to Sunflower in 45 1:15 minutes. In my old age, I don't like driving anymore and 2 hours is about as much as I want to do.

(An old-timer Influencer suggested parts of the AZT in southern AZ for winter backpacking. Probably a good suggestion. But there's that drive. (An hour south of N. Phx doesn't look like it gets me anywhere close to the AZT. The Superstitions?)

So I was thinking of starting at the Barnhardt TH, then Y-Bar to the MDT, Chilson, Horsecamp Seep, Rock Creek, Half Moon back to the Barnhardt TH.

I hiked Y-Bar back in April to the MDT. Detoured to Bear Spring (overnight), then to Chilson (overnight), cut it short by turning around and taking the Barnhardt trail back to the TH. And I've hiked the east half of Rock Creek (I was about a half mile east of the Falls before turning around) and all of Half Moon.

So I'm familiar with some of the route and some water sources. And there's a bail out point via the Barnhardt trail. That's comforting.

But I'm afraid about the west half of Rock Creek trail. I saw that volunteers cleared the path to Hopi Spring. But what after that? And I see that it's kinda steep east after Hopi. Rock climbing?

And a recent report by jrich0085 here says some places near the Falls are narrow and have sharp (i.e., deadly) drop offs.

I saw an old video that Joe posted about 10 years ago. Yep, looks narrow around the Falls. (And he's running on 'em.) My balance isn't what it used to be.

I thought that if Rock Creek looked too hard after Hopi or too dangerous once I arrived at the Falls, I could turn back and continue north to North Peak Trail, come back to the Barnhard TH that way, via the Forest Road to pick up Half Moon. A lot of walking. But on a FR. (I have hiked the first mile of North Peak from the TH.)

Did I say that I'm always overestimating my abilities? (Could camp at the Mineral Creek TH.)

And it will be January. I won't go if any storms are forecast. And I won't go if it just snowed a bunch up there. Or even a little? (Although I backpacked Little Saddle Mountain after a light snow fall, and in flurries, and it wasn't bad. But that was part of the AZT. Not offish-trail like Rock Creek.)

Still, it will be cold. (But no snakes. Maybe no bears. Yay!)

I don't mind the cold during the day. And my sleep system is good to at least 20F. But cold (and blustery) makes it hard for me to get going in the morning. I might not be packed up until 10.

With short days, that's not much hiking.

And cold eats up my cooking fuel.

Okay so then I was thinking of Sunflower, Pine Mt to the Reservoir, then to Globe for a pick up. (Since 60 goes there. Easy for my friend to drive there.)

That's a 60 mile hike. More than I've ever done.

I don't see an easy bail out point for pickup. (Looks like my friend would have to drive to Globe, then 188 to the Reservoir. What's that - 3 hours from N. Phx? Rats.)

I thought that that trail might be "easier" than the Mazatzals. But looking at the topos, it looks like I would be just as high in some places. I hear that that hill at Superior is a doozie. Hard going up. Dangerous coming down?

Don't know if they get snow there like more north in the Mazatzals. So far water reports are still looking dry. (Whereas looking good along the MDT.)

Or should I try starting at Globe and going up that first hill toward Sunflower?

(Am still wondering why we do this to ourselves. Am I having fun yet? (Yes, I think so. Until I fall and break something.))

[azbackpackr]

The PeakRefuel 2 serving Breakfast skillet is Denny's good - and a lot of food for one.

Hey, thanks for the tip. I'll try it. I get tired of Cream of Wheat packets every darned day. (No oatmeal for me, thank you.) I sometimes bring bagels and cream cheese for breakfast, but it's less practical for backpacking. Okay for the kayak.

[xsproutx]

Peak ReFuel is some of the best commercially available freeze dried stuff out there, honestly, especially if you bring a little thing of black pepper to add as it seems to be lacking that in some meals. Just need to look at the calories of what you're getting; some are 1k calories in a pouch but there's a couple (and of course, they're the tastiest...) that are only 600 calories. Of course they cost the same 12 bucks or whatever it is these days. Their biscuits and gravy is damn good; actual whole biscuits (which you should break up). Ton of calories so I usually repackage into two breakfasts.
PackitGourmet is also really nice although their selection isn't very broad.
Very common/known in the long distance backpacking community for people not to have a huge appetite for the first couple of days and to even not take a number 2 for a while but it's still important to force it to keep up strength/energy. My preferred method is shoving handfuls of sour gummys into my mouth... there always seems to be room for those...!

[azbackpackr]

@xsproutx
Gummies?

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

I believe I'm converging on a solution for my planned few-day excursion two weeks from now.

Still thinking out loud.

Per your suggestions, I plan to drive to Superstitions, to the Picketpost TH.

From there I can go south, along AZT Passage 17 and 16 to the Gila River.

(Question: Some say to not drink from the Gila. (Agricultural runoff.) Whereas the HikeAZ water reports don't shun it. And you say...?)

From the Gila, I could return to my vehicle at Picketpost and re-evaluate.

Or I could make a loop out of it, heading east at the Gila and then taking the Grand Enhancement Trail #3 (a.k.a., Old AZT) back to my vehicle at Picketpost.

The artisan well by Walnut Canyon looked perfect for filling up on the GEM - until I read (and saw the photos) that the well is now on private property, off limits to hikers.

So if last water is from the Gila until back at my vehicle at Picketpost, I dunno... It's 9 miles. I carry 3 liters, plus a side bottle. I barely drink a half liter on 5 mile training hikes here. But that's on fairly level hikes here.

The weather forecast, as of this writing, is for rain there starting late Sunday and continuing into Tuesday.

If there's water at Seep Spring, I might return on the loop. Or maybe take the loop first, southeast to the Gila, then the Water Collector back to Picketpost?

If it rains a lot beforehand, will there still be pools (or seeps?) along the GEM later in the week?

I can also start my adventure by going north, along AZT Passage 18A to the Reavis Canyon TH and overnight. Maybe a few miles north along 18B. Everyone says that the climb near Montana Mountain is "grueling." (A thru-hiker starting from MX said it was the hardest part of the trail he'd seen so far.) 2000' in 2 miles. So, being realistic, I don't think I can do it.

The AZT Steward suggested leaving my camp set up at Reavis so as to lighten my pack, and go up to Rogers Trough just for the day. He said after Mud Spring, there wouldn't be any water, so I would have to pack what I need up to Rogers Trough.

If it rains a lot for three days prior, will that change the water situation at Rogers Trough? Is there really a trough there to fill up?

I have seen some very recent trip reports here on HAZ for Passage 17 & 16 to the Gila. Watched a recent video by a trail runner running to the end of 17. And I've talked to the AZT Steward. Looks very easy/doable. Not much elevation gain back and forth to the Gila. About 2000' on the GEM, although it looks like a shallow slope.

I saw some old reports (last year, just as the well went private) on the GEM. So not as much timely data about that. (And I doubt that anyone is maintaining the GEM.) Should I bring pruners?

I don't know if it's a Pacific storm (cold) or air from the Baja (warm) that's brining the forecast rain. Since it's a multi-day affair, it doesn't look like a cold front. But if it is cold/windy, then heading south first might be best, since Passage 16 is the lowest (presumably warmest) point on the AZT for overnighting.

If it starts cold that week, maybe it will warm up for a northbound trip later in the week? (Although am probably being my usual over optimistic self and won't have the energy for the nobo trip.)

Otherwise, I could start going nobo, since I won't be tired by a south bound loop. (Is there anything to being "warmed up" from two days of looping sobo on not as challenging climbs?)

I'm training with 31 lbs on my back at this time. Very comfortable so far. I plan to increase the load to 35 lbs for these two weeks prior to my planned trip. That is as heavy as my pack has ever been on a backpacking trip.

[xsproutx]

The gila is perfectly fine. People who shun it are the same people who shun cow tanks or water that has algae. Is is something I'd drink from everyday of my life? Probably not. Would I drink it for days at a time? Without question. I see a lot of people complain it'll clog your filter because it's so silty, too, and I've never had that issue. It's certainly not the clearest water but I've never had any problems filtering. Probably different after a rainstorm.

NOBO from the Gila back to Picketpost involves some long climbing as an FYI. Not the worst by any stretch but you seem to avoid that.

Picket Post to the Gila is more like 21 miles, not 9. That's a large difference so check your planning... There's a water collector at about 10 miles in from Picket Post that is filled with water. That's the only spot that's a certainty for water in between Picketpost and the Gila. If you take the old AZT, you'll likely find water in Walnut canyon but not definitive.

Going north from Picketpost, you'll find water in the creek in spots and you'll find water at mud spring (may need to hike the .2 miles to the cistern if the tanks are empty but easy to find, just follow the hose). That will likely be the last water heading to Roger's trough. With the recent rains, you'll likely see some in the drainage until you start the climb but you never know.

It's a fairly long somewhat steep climb full of switchbacks. If I were just going to Rogers Trough and back, it wouldn't be worth it to me personally.

You may find stashed water at the trailhead, you may not. As for other water sources right near the trailhead, there are none that you can cound on.

I'll be honest, you seem to be consistently setting yourself up with complications and for failure. You seem to readily admit you don't have a lot of experience and carry a lot of fears with you. Just go into the Supes for a week; it's easier, more widely tread, more water, more bail out opportunities, and easier to create loops versus doing a 21+ mile out and back. Get your legs under you, learn to trust your equipment so you don't have to worry whether a spot 20 miles away is slightly warmer/wetter/etc. Once you have that confidence, everything else is whatever.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@xsproutx
Thanks for you input. (Especially about drinking from the Gila.)

(If I am just topping off my water and the water looks questionable, my latest protocol is to scoop up water in a bag and filter it later, when I need it. It lets the sediment settle. If I come across a better, cleaner source, then I dump the bag and fill with better water. I also carry a LifeStraw as a backup, which, because I'm drawing water from the top, handles sediment better.)

Much of my "What if"-ing is my "pilot thinking." Good pilots always have a Plan B. (If not a Plan C.)

The 9 miles is from the Gila along the GET to the junction of Passage 17, if water at Seep Spring. Otherwise, I could detour a mile south to the Collector after NW on the GET before returning to Picketpost.

I suppose if there's no water that I can find in Walnut Canyon/the Narrows, I can turn back south to the Gila.

I seem a bit obsessed with the AZT - maybe because "it's there"? So that's part of the reason for wanting to hike Sections of it. (As opposed to the Superstitions proper.) And, too, I don't want to drive on the FR's this time around. Especially now that the wx forecast is still showing 3 days of rain before.

If I enjoy/can do this trip, then I will keep training and plan for Passage 18B, 19 to Roosevelt in the spring. That would be the Supes and the AZT. Two birds.

[big_load]

The Safford-Morenci trail is nice for that length of time (out-and-back) without bad hills. There's tons of interesting geology and variety in the landscape.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

@big_load
Thanks. Actually, I would like to hike the AZT Passage from Flagstaff to Pine in the summer. It's somewhat flat. And I have a way to be dropped off at FLG,with a pickup at Pine.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

Have returned from my first trip to the Picketpost TH. (Turned out to not to be 4 days, for two reasons.) Thanks for your input.

Between cleaning my gear, recovering, and collecting my thoughts & photos, it will be a day before I post my Trip Report.

[TooOld2Hike_EP]

FWIW, I plan to try this trip again this week. Have set aside four days again. But this time I plan to head to Walnut Canyon from Picketpost. And then, depending, will either return same way or try coming back via the Gila.

Will not push as hard this time. Given the recent water report here (lots of water in Walnut Canyon), will probably leave one of my 0.7 ml bottles (for water) empty at the start and save a pound and a half.

The weather forecast had been calling for rain, and possibly thunderstorms on Tuesday. But the forecast has backed off on that, forecasting only light morning showers Tuesday.