Im so lost! Why is it such a big deal Going off trail?

[AZ_Hiker]

Im sure it would be easy to trun this in to an angry fight, but I still think its worth talking about.


I have not been in Arizona long. I am still learning about hiking here as apposed to the south or the northwest. so that being said..

I dont understand why people here seem to get bent when someone says "I was off trail".. how did a "trail" get started in the first place, I mean someone had to do it first.. right?

there have been a few adventures I have had that I know some could learn form but I wont post them here because of how some act here. Weather its getting a little lost or not wearing the right gear or whatever the adversity I have come across... I have learned so far that here is not the place to talk about it because some would rather flame then add..

is this a place to take and learn from others?

The deset is an indiscriminate executioner. there is a lot I have learned and some really cool people I have meet here. But there is always something more to learn. Do some of you tho, think you have it all figured out? and therefore have some kind of a "right" to carve up someone for making a mistake?

Like I said some people here are really encouraging and helpful so this not directed at everyone.. but some could be a little more helpful and constructive instead of being so quick to point out mistakes..

of course this is just my opinion.. but the goal here I thought was not to have everyone doing exactly the same thing. everyone enjoys the outdoors in a different way. But the goal here should be that we all get back safely with the good the bad and the ugly so that all my learn form that experance. again JMO..

AZhiker.

[pfredricks]

Did you leave your trip plans with someone?

he mentioned that a few posts back.

That predicting weather thing reminds me of a post with snick33 and crickets and such, I am gonna start a new post about predicting weather.
There are plenty of ways to do a moderately good job. MIght be a good new topic.

-Pete

Here's the new one about weather
http://hikearizona.com/dex2/viewtopic.php?p=15407#15407

The cricket conversation started with, I believe my favorite snick33 post of all time
http://www.hikearizona.com/dex2/viewtop ... c&start=49

[mttgilbert]

That predicting weather thing reminds me of a post with snick33 and crickets

Oh no.... Not the crickets again....

[AZ_Hiker]

yes I did leave my plans with someone..

[CindyC]

Hmmm. Interesting thread.

The Desert can deal a whole multitude of hands to anyone who ventures out in it. Nobody can predict what "Ma Nature" is going to dole out to the suspecting, or unsuspecting.

All ANYONE can do to prepare for what Nature has in store for them is to do their best. Pack accordingly to the best of their ability. Prepare as mentally as possible.

I can safely assume that everyone who has contributed to this thread has been caught "out of place" at one time, or another. Probably multitudes of times. I have. You deal with it the best you can at the time. Good or Bad. It will always be a learning experience.
Nobody... I mean NOBODY... was born into venturing. It's a learned trait just like everything else. Some lessons are harsh, some are lesser, most stick with you forever. Never to be done again, or always repeated. Everyone has their own threshold. It's recognizing those lessons that counts for most of what life hands out. A person has to know their limitations before dealing with anything nature has to offer.

I disagree with HikerinGilbert, not a first, huh? We were ALL MEANT to venture! When we don't we have gone against our natural instinct. Those who believe otherwise have made a choice to ignore that.

[Billy]

I couldn't agree with you more Cindy, no offense to anyone else's thoughts, but I do believe as Cindy said: "We were ALL MEANT to venture! When we don't we have gone against our natural instinct. Those who believe otherwise have made a choice to ignore that."

Adventure is something that was written across my heart.

[Daryl]

You're alive and it sounds like you learned a few things. Great job, happy ending.

Just a note: I know several people that pack a few condoms in their pack. They take up no space and weigh nothing, but if you need to carry extra water they work great.

[AZ_Hiker]

never thought of that.. but you have to admit, not really a natural thought, drinking form a condom.


as far as the wondering/exploring issue. is it natural for humans or not?

I could see it both ways. for me its natural to be away from citys and explore new places. History is filled with explorers and I have the same blood in me.

But history is also full of mankind coming together for thousands and thousands of years to build citys.

this to me says something.. humans want it both ways:) we like the idea of adventure and exploring. maybe we will get to see something no one has seen before. Maybe we will get to discover something lost for a thousand years. Or like me, Maybe we work out our place in this life.. whatever.. On the other hand the coming together in tribes and nations, building citys and roads.. this is part of all of us to. Humans need it for lots of reasons. A place to be with our own kind. we all need a little company now and then. some more then others. I cant even think of my mom out on some trail with no air conditioning. She thinks im crazy to be that far away from people/roads/citys.

dont know if I made a point or not.. I guess what Im saying is its natural for both. its up to each of us to be at peace with the path we choose.

AZ_Hiker

[HikerInGilbert]

I disagree with HikerinGilbert, not a first, huh? We were ALL MEANT to venture! When we don't we have gone against our natural instinct. Those who believe otherwise have made a choice to ignore that.

No, not a first

I guess I should have elaborated a bit more. What I meant was we were not born with the skills necessary to venture safely. Hence the "learned trait" portion of what I said. Instinctively? Yes, we were born to venture. I agree 100%

[mttgilbert]

Uh oh... Now we've entered into one of the most debated topics in the history of philosphy and psychology. Nature Vs. Nurture. Were we born with it or did we learn it?

I like to think we were born with a propensity for exploration. Look at infants, the primary motivation of infants to learn to crawl seems to be an effort to find out more about their world. This would suggest that there is a natural tendancy to explore. But why explore nature (the outdoors)? This surely must be learned, otherwise we would be content to "explore" the cities and urban areas from whence we come. Surely then the desire to explore the "back of beyond" must come from, or through, our senses. This would make the desire a learned trait. Somewhere along the line we came to the emperical conclusion that wild land is somehow superior to settled land. I like to think that this is a natural conclusion (perhaps even a priori ). This belief is probably rooted in our recognition that man, and therefore the constructs thereof, are ultimately fallible. Knowing this then, it would be a natural (emperical) conclusion to seek the outdoors in an attempt to identify that which is infallible. (I happen to think that one of the driving forces of humans is to identify perfection, or at least a manifestation thereof (hence our perpetual interest in concepts like God))

[AZ_Hiker]

as far as the explorer in us.. there is a differance between exploring to servive and exploring for discovery. I dont know of many animals/insects that are born live and die with out moving.. r they exploring in the same way we do? I dont think so. there servival depends on it.

[Abe]

In response to matt gilbert's reply: : Whao! Deep. I have to give this one some serious thought and get back with you matt.

Did I say it was o.k. to hike off the trail? That I did it.

[CindyC]

In response to matt gilbert's reply: : Whao! Deep. I have to give this one some serious thought and get back with you matt.

Did I say it was o.k. to hike off the trail? That I did it.

Ditto! I don't know Matt, that much thought could be dangerous! :roll:

[mttgilbert]

In response to matt gilbert's reply: : Whao! Deep. I have to give this one some serious thought and get back with you matt.

Ditto! I don't know Matt, that much thought could be dangerous! :roll:

sorry everyone...

For most of the day I just sit around in my philosophy classes discussing issues like these (though, usually in terms of somewhat different examples), so you'll have to forgive me if I get a little carried away sometimes.

[ADGibson]

In response to pfredricks' reply:

Even with a barometer, I have the Suunto Vector, you can't always predict what the weather is ultimately going to do. I have been caught out in a storm on many fishing trips. Sometimes we stay longer than we should and others we have to go through the storm to get to my brother's boat back to the ramp. We can out run a storm on a boat the does 60mph on the water. A person on foot has a much reduced chance of outrunning a storm.

As far as nature giving us hints this is true, but nature is fooled by it's own actions. I have watched fish react when a storm is approaching. For those who don't know fish will go on a feeding frenzy before a storm comes in. When the storm hits fish will usaully go deeper and stay close to some type of cover. I have also watched these storms miss the area we are at after they(the fish) have shut down. Biologist tell us that fish, I'm a bass fisherman, are very sensitive to barometric pressure. They can sense what we need a device to detect. If a fish is fooled then I can't be any better.

Everyone that spends any time in the outdoors will get caught in a storm at some point. The more you go the greater the odds. This is obvious. I tend to be very cautious when traveling on foot in the outdoors. Four of my buddies and I got caught in a terrible storm on the Black River. We were on our third night and several miles from the vehicle. Only thing to do was get in our tents and wait it out.

I don't think you did anything wrong AZ_Hiker. Sometimes even the best laid plans go wrong. 4 liters for an 8 mile trip is about what I would have planned. The important thing is you survived! Now we can all learn from your experience. I'm a better off because you passed on the knowledge. That's the point of a forum like this. I would be happy to go on an adventure with you sometime.

I will be joining some of the activities with some of you soon. I apologize I have not been active at all. My oldest son has a very serious health situation that has all our efforts bent towards it now. I don't wish to burden anyone with this, but I felt the need to explain why I have not participated in any of the HAZ events.

Aaron
"happiness comes from you, not to you"-Me

[MaryPhyl]

I think I will stick to game trails when I can. The game happily trudge along on people trails so we can't scare them much. I see their sign all the time. The crust on untrampled ground is so fragile you can see footprints made in it years later.