Boy Scouts - Good or Bad?

[jmangum]

From time to time I have read some forum posts that make reference to Boy Scouts - mostly in a negative manner. I was wondering how everyone feels about them.

I know that it can sometimes be a downer to be out on a trail and come across a herd of noisy teens, but on the other hand I am in full support that gets teens off their butts, out from in front of the TV and Play Station and in to nature.

[Snick33]

mswaine

Well put, I think your post would make a great summation for a very long thread. What say you all?

[sherileeaz]

mswaine

Well put, I think your post would make a great summation for a very long thread. What say you all?

AMEN!
Over and Out
Dead End

Or what ever fits here....

[jmangum]

I'm done if you are . . . I guess . . . Maybe . . .

[mttgilbert]

Yeah, me too. Its about that time.

Thanks guys its been fun.

'till next time...

[Snick33]

It was great, and I think we call all say with pride, that this is what we we aren't:

To describe a mind that gets positive pleasure from believe . . . . and pain from doubt. The credophile collects believes the way a Jackdaw, (bird) collects nest ornaments, not for utility, but for glitter . . . . . and once having embraced a believe, it takes something more than mere disproof to make him let it go.

L. Sprague DeCamp

[hazard]

Back when I was in the Scouts our motto was take only pictures and leave only footprints. At the end of our trip we walked shoulder to shoulder like a crime scene investigation and scoured the campsite to remove any and all non organic matter wether it was ours or not. Very sad to her that other troops do not follow this code.

[azbackpackr]

I read the first page of this thread (from2003) and part of the last page. I have no very strong opinion on the gays issue, although I think if gays were allowed to be leaders a lot of parents might balk at allowing their boys to join the Scouts. It may be an uneducated fear (after all most molestations of young boys are done by otherwise "heterosexual" men, not by avowedly gay men.) But it is a fear and you're not going to make it go away.

I was an assistant Scoutmaster in two troops in Tucson--it is not too uncommon for women to hold positions of leadership in Scouting. One troop we were in was sponsored by the VFW, the other by a non-LDS church. When we moved to Eagar there didn't seem to be a non-LDS troop in town, but several people from the LDS-sposored troops invited my boys and I to join. They were very kind to me and insisted that it was no problem that I was female and non-LDS. They said they needed all the volunteers they could find! Instead I got together with several other parents and reorganized a defunct troop sponsored by the Presbyterian Church. That troop is now one of the most successful in town, but the VFW here also started a new troop, looking especially to recruit non-LDS boys from single-parent homes. Eagar is a "Mormon town," but the problems discussed in the thread don't seem as bad here as what I read in the thread.

There have always been problems with Scouts having poor leadership. After all, the leaders are mostly parents who may or may not have much outdoor experience. I remember one year the national theme of the Scouts was "Leave No Trace." Maybe they should do that one again! And yes, Scouts have started more than a few forest fires, among other things! And some troops are messy, and they are all noisy. But instead of scrapping the whole thing, why not contribute to make it better? Become a Scouter yourself and help out! Anyone can join, as long as you can pass the background check they will do on you!

One of my boys became an Eagle Scout, the other a Life Scout. I'm sure that Scouting had a very positive impact on their lives. In addition, they got to go backpacking a lot more than I would have had time to take them, as we made sure they belonged to troops that did "high adventure" rather than car camping.

My boys are grown, but I continue to volunteer with an Explorer Post (a branch of Scouting) dedicated to search and rescue.

[sundevilstormin]

Instill in youth the Leave no Trace philosophy...

Do a Good Turn Daily,

Be Prepared,

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty
Brave
Clean,
Reverent.,

I think that any program with lofty goals like that AND gets kids out of doors away from Gamecube, Nintendo, X-Box, and out of cell-phone and internet range is a good thing...

yeah, they are kids, teenagers, etc and will be obnoxious :twisted: , but ya gotta start somewhere!

Eagle Scout , Scout leader, and prefer my topo and suunto over magellan!

[sundevilstormin]

DOH... I didn't read the WHOLE thread when I postem my meager response....

Well said by all! The BSA needs more of this type of dialogue, In fact I will foward the link to our local district leaders for them to read...

As was said before, the boys really dont care, its the adults that generally muck thinks up with all of this stuff... they just want to have fun.

And we caryy Aluminum canteens so that they have something with which to pound tent stakes into the soft AZ earth... have you ever seen a hydration bladder explode? We even had one eaten through by a rodent, too... not so with Aluminum!

Great Fun! I want to sponsor an Eagle Scout clean-up of Havasu Falls campground... any volunteers!

See ya''ll on the trail!

[Jim]

They're all fine and dandy until Radioactive Man has to face the evil Scout Master and his loyal "Boys".

[azbackpackr]

I ran into what looked like a pretty good backpacking Scout troop from Gilbert on the weekend of June 6 to 8 down at Grant Creek in the Blue Primitive Area. Nice to see the guys out backpacking--it did bring back memories. And when you remember the Scout Law, you'll remember "A Scout is Friendly, Courteous, Cheerful." They were those things. "A Scout is Clean." They left their camp a day before we did. I walked all over it after they were gone, never saw so much as a candy wrapper. I put my hand where they had had a big fire the night before--it was cold and wet, had been doused with water thoroughly. I failed to notice their troop number, unfortunately, but if anyone recognizes the dates and location, maybe you can pass this along. They were just a nice group of boys and leaders.

When my boys were involved I was a leader too, (yes, lots of women are Boy Scout leaders) and we backpacked the Catalinas, Rincons, Grand Canyon, Organ Pipe, Gila Wilderness, etc. Our Scoutmaster did not believe in car camping! He made an exception to that only for the many trips to the Pinacates in Mexico. We also practiced "A Scout is Thrifty" and were able to take many boys from low-income homes, single mom homes, even illegal alien homes. We were always at the Goodwill looking for used uniforms and backpacks, etc. To this day, because of that very thriftiness, I WILL NOT take Ramen Noodles or mac 'n' cheese on a backpacking trip! I ate it with the rest of them then. I don't have to, now!

[Jeffshadows]

I ran into what looked like a pretty good backpacking Scout troop from Gilbert on the weekend of June 6 to 8 down at Grant Creek in the Blue Primitive Area. Nice to see the guys out backpacking--it did bring back memories. And when you remember the Scout Law, you'll remember "A Scout is Friendly, Courteous, Cheerful." They were those things. "A Scout is Clean." They left their camp a day before we did. I walked all over it after they were gone, never saw so much as a candy wrapper. I put my hand where they had had a big fire the night before--it was cold and wet, had been doused with water thoroughly. I failed to notice their troop number, unfortunately, but if anyone recognizes the dates and location, maybe you can pass this along. They were just a nice group of boys and leaders.

When my boys were involved I was a leader too, (yes, lots of women are Boy Scout leaders) and we backpacked the Catalinas, Rincons, Grand Canyon, Organ Pipe, Gila Wilderness, etc. Our Scoutmaster did not believe in car camping! He made an exception to that only for the many trips to the Pinacates in Mexico. We also practiced "A Scout is Thrifty" and were able to take many boys from low-income homes, single mom homes, even illegal alien homes. We were always at the Goodwill looking for used uniforms and backpacks, etc. To this day, because of that very thriftiness, I WILL NOT take Ramen Noodles or mac 'n' cheese on a backpacking trip! I ate it with the rest of them then. I don't have to, now!

Yea the Ramen and Cup-o-noodles was the worst!!!

[mapit]

through my business instructing youth and adults in Tracking and other outdoors skills I have worked with the girl scouts frequently ,excellent group.The boy scouts as any group will reflect the qualities of their leadership.
My concern is the low skill level of the leadership ,It is important that young people learn good skills but they need instruction that can provide this.

[mrdave]

Very good and interesting post.

The Boy Scouts is an excellent organization. As already mentioned, it really helps young men learn values, qualities and skills that will serve them well the rest of their lives. No where near enough of this nowdays, espcially honesty, in light of the recent financial and other problems. Boys will be boys, and alot of issues, are because of leaders that have not helped their boys to learn the scouting values, outdoor code, leave no trace, and other principles the Scouts organization teaches. The BSA is mostly run by volunteers, so some leaders will do much better job at helping their boys learn, and then live the values and principles. Most do work hard to do a good job, but some could use some more training, as adult leaders. It is great to have these young kids get off their back sides and away from their game stations, etc. and get out and have some great experiences.

I was sorry to hear about those that have had sour experiences with Scouts and the LDS church. I am LDS and if LDS Scout Leaders were being exclusionary due to membership, it is not what the LDS church teaches. (unless for some good reason not explained) I had the opportunity to be a scout leader with my older sons and we had a great time. We had several non-LDS kids in our neighborhood that were a part of our troop and had we had a great time wtih them also. Their parents participated with us on hikes, court of honors, and other Scout activities. Yes, it would have been great, if they had the desire and joined the church, but they didn't choose to, but that was fine, we were glad to have them participate and we are still good friends.

Scouting, done correctly, is excellent. As mentioned, don't let the few bad apples spoil it for the majority.

[mring1]

I just joined Hike Arizona, and found this string. Very interesting comments. So, I'll add my two cents. First the declarations of my "conflict of interest." I'm an Assistant Scoutmaster and Order of the Arrow Arrowman. My son is the Senior Patrol Leader for a troop that meets at a Lutheran church in Phoenix. The church that opens its meeting room doors to 12 Step Programs, other community entities and us. Other than the meeting space, our troop is not affiliated with that church. I'm not Mormon.

Regarding the influence of the Mormon Church on scouting: it's real, it's financial and it's political. However, the "family focus" of the Mormon Church is an important part of Scouting, and many of the tenets of both parallel each other. The intolerance of the Mormon Church toward gays is something I find wrong, but how many organizations do any of us belong to in which we blindly accept every principle? On balance, Scouting has given my son some invaluable lessons and the two of us times out at campsites that a father and son might never otherwise have in today's world. I understand the Mormon influence on Scouting. It doesn't influence me.

Which brings me to the second point. We get a young man at age 11. We can preach and practice "leave no trace", but if they've not learned responsibility and accountability in the first 11 years, it's tough to suddenly make them that way. We have some of those kids in our troop, and the adults know who they are. I've encountered adults who bad mouth Scouting based on trail and campsite experiences. I listen, offer my perspective, and move on. We can only manage our own young men, and our behavior. And that includes the adults.

The reality of Scouting is that it's the adults who mold the troop and model the behaviors. Accepting that responsibility has opened the door to participation in an organization that offers young men challenge and opportunity. And did I mention that it's a blast??

[Jeffshadows]

I was a Scout and I now have a young son so I've considered looking back into Scouting and maybe even organizing a Troop at the local school, which is currently devoid of one. I was told that they would basically not allow me to be a Scoutmaster because I would refuse to pretend to be a Christian. All I could think was: "Great; we'll let guys who turn out to be child molesters through because they say they go to church every Sunday, but not his guy with a lot of useful experience to share with the kids." I would be interested to hear what some of you who are Scout leaders have to say about all of this?

[dysfunction]

It's interesting seeing the differences between Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts (I have 3 girls, no boys). My wife is a Girl Scout leader of multiple troops and is heavily involved in her service unit etc and to be honest, I'm a registered co-leader.. and never once was anything about Christianity asked. Personally, I find there to be too much of value offered by scouting in general (granted it does depend on the troop.. my own scouting ended with a move to an area where the troop did nothing outside (from one that did everything outside), so I did CAP for the SAR stuff instead) and I'd simply avoid the issue if possible.

[writelots]

I wonder, Jeff, if it's not a hitch with that particular troop... I know folks who are involved who just keep their beliefs to themselves - sort of a don't ask don't tell policy on religion. Then I know others where the troop was so closely related to the church that they even got uppity about Catholics...

Mring - I hope that your attitude about Scouts is contagious. For all of the flaws in the organization and all of the shortcomings, it's an excellent opportunity to teach young men about being responsible, aware and respectful of nature. Not many other formalized venues for that level of education, and when I look at many of the people my age with kids - people who don't have those skills themselves - I know that we need help.

[SuperstitionGuy]

It is not about being a christian or non-christian. It's about believing in a creator or not. My Scout Troop (1950's)included every boy in my home town except the farm kids who found transportation to the meetings to be a problem. Catholic, Protestant to Jewish, and boys who attended no church at all. Religion or lack of a religion was never an issue.

I have worked very extensively as an adult with Troops of all persuasions and none at all, and have never had a problem. Why individuals or groups want to attack the basic principles of Scouting and destroy such a wonderful program is beyond my understanding.

[dysfunction]

Seems to me to be nothing more than a continuation of the so called 'culture wars'. I really don't remember it being an issue at all when I was a scout.