Atmosphere Comparison

[Jim]

The endless chatter of weather.

[Jim]

It's weird being out here and having no real weather station. Flagstaff is 1,250" higher than me, Page is 1,440' lower. My fortress of solitude sits at 5,749'. Flagstaff has had a good deal of rain so far, with 96/100ths reported for the month. Depending on how things go, they may be over for the year to date (January 1). Probably won't be though. Kayenta has had rain, but the pure nuisance kind. My guess is we've had about 1/4 to maybe 1/3 of an inch since I got here Friday. Some from the thunderstorms we had over the weekend, some from the low. I'd much rather have sun and normal temps, since not only is this an irritant, but it is killing any plans I had. Don't know what it does for the vegetation outside of my yard, since my soil is so hard, it doesn't really penetrate. It might do better on the range.

Summer really is over when Flagstaff gets snow, the low deserts have highs in the 70s and rain, and the Sierra Nevada has a forecast for up to 20 inches of snow. I know we discussed this before, but summer sure seemed short and fast this year, but I guess it all depends on your elevation. I was hoping then, for a mild, long autumn. Perhaps not? I just hope we don't have a never ending, long winter like we did this past season. The NWS is calling for a low of 24 Thursday night in Flagstaff, 32 here in Kayenta Friday night. I can't complain, I guess, since I still am at what most people in the country or perhaps world, would call "high elevation". 5,750' is higher than Denver, and most other inhabited locations in the US, but moving from Flagstaff, it seems like low elevation. Maybe mid-level, but certainly lower.

[writelots]

Yesterday was beautiful from about noon on...and with forecasts for snow later this week on our peaks, well - I'm psyched. It hiking season!

[azbackpackr]

Ugh. It's cold in Flagstaff today. Having lived in the desert quite a bit, I miss it in winter. However, Flagstaffians don't see it that way. "Chilly outside this morning," said the waitress at the Railroad Cafe. "Yeah," I replied, "Time to go back to the desert!" "Ugh!" She said.

I have had this reaction from a lot of people. The high country types, both here and in the White Mtns., seem to think it is always over 100 degrees in the desert, even in January, and that the "desert" I am referring to is "The Valley." (Phoenix.) It always seems very odd to me that so many people have so little grasp of the geography and climate of their own state. Everyone thinks Yuma is always hot, for example. I guess they have never been there when it's 55 during the day and 30 at night, which is pretty common in winter there. In fact, if you go to Yuma to wear shorts in winter you can often be disappointed at how chilly it can be.

[Jim]

I know what you are talking about. First, it is wrong to assume all Flaggers are from Flagstaff. In fact, if my experience is close to a statistical truth, then virtually no one is from there. Most seem to come from somewhere back east, or California. In fact, other than Jake, only school kids were from there, and many came from close by, but were not really from. Michigan, for what ever reason, was a common location for people to be from and those people seem to have no business in Arizona since they are the worst for loving cold and hating temps over 65, in my experience. I found it very irritating when I would encounter hikers on the trail, or people in town who would think 75 was hot, not becuase it was 55 the day before, but just that 75 it self is hot. I love summer and warm temps, and yet people in Flag would get excited about cold damp weather like somehow it is treat. One woman I encountered was getting excited to make soup. You know you can eat soup anytime, right? Whatever.


Thats the thing about Flag. It is a cold weather town. Miserable, cold conditions seem to be the norm. And, you have the privilege of paying more for it and making less. You basically get two decent months, June and September. May in a hot year. July and August are cool and wet, and sometimes cold and wet, with the exceptions of monsoon breaks, and the rest of the year is cool to bitterly cold. Spring is miserably windy, fall can be, too, and winter is overall the best season, since it is consistently sunny, pretty dry, and not usually windy. You just have to like winter, and unless you do, you're better off at lower elevations. It isn't like there aren't other small towns in the state, and that is probably why places like Prescott took off, but for some reason most Flaggers think there is only Flagstaff, Sedona, and Phoenix.

[azbackpackr]

Sedona isn't a real town, though. Cottonwood is, and so is Flag. Real towns have amenities, such as hospitals. Even little Springerville/Eagar is more of a real town than Sedona. It has a hospital and a community college. I would move to Cottonwood, where it's warmer, but it doesn't make sense at this point, since I'll be leaving in January anyway. And if I go to grad school, it will likely be at NAU. But that's a long ways off.

As for whether the people are "from here" or not: The problem with towns where more than half the people are true locals (such as Springerville/Eagar) is that they have this really insular and somewhat xenophobic attitude toward outsiders. They gossip shamelessly, often have ongoing feuds and factions (which is happening in Eagar right now, in fact) and the general population is undereducated to the point that interesting conversation is a real rarity. I almost went nuts over there. At least over here in Flag there are a few people I've made acquaintance with who are interesting and fun to hang out and hike with.

[Jim]

Well, at least some of the smaller towns have nice weather, like Safford or Globe.

[azbackpackr]

Speaking of the weather, I haven't seen the Peaks all day.

[kingsnake]

Flagstaff bitterly cold?

I went to school there. It was *mild* compared to Wisconsin -- where the week before I left it was -13 every morning. (I wore a windbreaker: They make them hardy in the Badger State.

[Jim]

Yeah, it's mild, wind breaker weather all the time there, like when it was -19 last winter, or -30 in Bellemont. Great another mid-western bragging about how hardy they are plz: .

[kingsnake]

Wind chill does not count.

[Jim]

Wind chill does not count.

Yeah, how about that. It was calm when it was -19 in Flagstaff and -30 in Bellemont.
http://www.wunderground.com/history/air ... atename=NA

[azbackpackr]

Flagstaff is cold. It's colder than Springerville and Eagar. On the other hand, we had a temp of -25 in Eagar a couple of winters ago. No wind. I think that was the same time it was -30 in Bellemont. Edit: I guess it was this year. I was there, then went to the Valley later that day. I had forgotten about that. People were saying that my friends and I shouldn't do our "chicks with sticks" hike of the entire Dutchman trail in one day because it might be too cold. Cold, you know, like maybe 40 degrees. Hahahahahahaha! We did the hike. It was great!

[kingsnake]

Even the NWS in Flagstaff says "Flagstaff can have extended periods of cold weather (although not cold by Midwest standards!)."

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/fgz/science/cold.php?wfo=fgz

In the coldest month (Jnauary), on average, Flagstaff is 16 degrees warmer during the day, and 10 degrees warmer at night.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff,_AZ

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_Crosse,_Wisconsin (and that is La Crosse, not Eagle River or places further north)

So, while Flagstaff does get chilly at night pretty much all year round, exceptional cold is rare, and exceptions do not prove the rule.

From personal experience living several cities in Wisconsin, and several in Arizona, Wisconsin is colder.

[azbackpackr]

Ugh. All this talk of cold. I am dreaming of Yuma. And Costa Rica....

[chumley]

Speaking of the weather, I haven't seen the Peaks all day.

Snowbowl just posted a photo of snowcapped peaks from Hart Prairie. Looks to be less than 2" and only above 10k. But expecting at least 6" overnight.

[Jim]

Good, get back to Arizona weather talk. This is Arizona, not Michiconsinois, and I hate hearing about places back east. I left there for a reason, and generally hate hearing about it, or hearing about how tough it made you. I heard plenty of that in Florida from all the old men who left some place up north and had nothing to do but talk about their past "back up there".

[Jim]

Ugh. All this talk of cold. I am dreaming of Yuma. And Costa Rica....

Yeah, Tucson sounds really nice about now. Especially with this storm, which is a wonderful wind event! Blowing dust, oh boy! Rob, you called it.

[PatrickL]

Anyone have an idea of how the road conditions on the way to Kendrick Peak might look around Sunday/Monday? Forecast says less than an inch of snow accumulation on Thursday and Thursday night. Low clearance, FWD + wet road seems iffy, but I've never seen the road so I can't say for sure.

[azbackpackr]

I don't know how quickly it will dry up. I drove my Honda Accord out there early this summer. The road is very rutted and looked like it could get to be a real mud-hole if wet. If I were you, I'd have a Plan B in mind as well.

[PatrickL]

I'm considering some other smaller trips in the area (Elden, Bill Williams), but Kendrick was my primary reason for heading up there. Maybe I'll get another chance in the coming weeks.