Snake Gaiters

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Anyone wear snake gaiters, I am looking for suggestions as to type (knee, hip) and brand. I have had several close calls and thought a little prevention may help, though I could perhaps wear my glasses full time.

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

[quote='GTG']
'Mogollon Monkeys'. They flew, and ate the flesh of mammals of course. They were particularly fond of Boy Scouts and first-time campers.

[/quote]

That is exactly why I own a Cairn Terrier, the same breed as Toto on the Wizard of Oz. He is trained to deal with Flying Monkeys. The Mogollon variety are particularly nasty as far as monkeys go but Winston, my Cairn can handle 500 flying monkeys.

Witches are still a problem.

Cakewalk · Post by **Cakewalk** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

I got picked up by a giant albatross once...

It carried me for 50 yards before I traded my canteen of water for my life.
It put me down and apologized for the inconvenience and i continued my hike..

And I JUST ran out of film a few minutes earlier. figures....

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Okay I realize

Snick

is roaring drunk again with the lust for life and all but you guys are creating the next lockness legend...

'Elmer keep going straight on I-40'
'Hell no Claudia! We're hightailing it 600 miles north through Utah to avoid them deadly Snake-Gaiters!'

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

I resent that remark Joe, I don't drink nearly as much as I used to, I spill most of it now . . . . .

Sande J · Post by **Sande J** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Great comments everyone, makes my day to come on here and get a great laugh.
Just watch out for the ole Mojave rattler..Im not so sure one of those bad boys wouldnt try and strike if you were close enough... :x
Sande J

azhiker96 · Post by **azhiker96** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

I've seen 3 rattlers in the past 2 years. One was a black-tailed on South Mountain. It was catching some rays and was unconcerned. The second was a diamondback near Hiroglyphic springs. It was also unconcerned and barely buzzed as I moved it with my walking stick. The third was a Mohave on the terrapin trail. He OWNED that trail and made it very clear. I had to back off, wait a bit, and finally toss a few small pebbles to get him to move aside so I could pass. I think it's best to just be aware of the trail and your surroundings. I don't own a snakebite kit but if you do, don't cut. Just use the suction device. The FDA has a page with recommendations:
http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/995_snakes.html

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

I appreciate all the comments, I don't plan on handling the snakes my problem has been looking down to see what is squirming under my boot and then dealing with knee pain from a near world record broad-jump.

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

[quote='Fritzski']
Curious. Has anyone heard of a documented case of a hiker being bitten by a rattlesnake? Personally I have not. Obviously I'm sure its happened, but how, when, where? What were the medical implications?
[/quote]

Hell, yes. I know two people who have been bitten. My father has been bitten by a Western Diamondback while dove hunting (same basic thing as hiking - gotta get to where the birds are). And I have been bitten twice by Copperhead vipers while hiking in Houston, TX. I have nearly stepped on 1 rattlesnake and 3 water mocasins (again all in TX), and seen many more.

In Arizona I have seen 5 snakes, never close to being bitten by one, and once on an overnight survival campout - we had 2 rattlers curl up around the legs of one of the female campers (probably just to get warm). When she woke up, I swear you have never heard such a blood curdling scream. We ran over and gently uncoiled the snakes and let them loose. Probably the funniest and scariest snake experience I have ever had.

The medical consequences of a bite all are determined by the severity of the bite and the quality and swiftness of the care afterwards. My father almost died. He still has two impressive scars from where the snake bit him (it was a big son-of-a-gun - the picutures and reports all seem to show that it was at least 5 feet long - bordering on 6 - just as a side note, western diamondbacks can grow up to 7 feet long).

Myself, when I was bitten it was by a full grown copperhead both times - and I don't think either time that they injected me with much if any venom. I didn't even have to have anti-venom. I got a little sick and that was it.

The most venomous snake to be bitten by in Arizona is the Coral Sanke - but they are rare and don't have fangs so bites from them are extremely rare. But more dangerous is the Mojave Rattlesnake. Most rattlesnakes have a venom that is similar to a digestive juice and will disolve the muscle tissue it comes into contact with. Only really deadly in large amounts and if it comes into abundant contact with cardiac tissue. The mojave however has a neurotoxin for its venom. In other words it affects the nerves and shuts down motor activity. VERY dangerous if not treated quickly. But mojave rattlers are not terribly common.

The most common bites are by western diamondbacks, because of their larger numbers and their more aggressive temperment. Their venom is not neurotoxic, so if treated quickly will usually only cause some scaring in the immediate vicinity of the bite.

The method of treating a snakebite is NOT like they show in the movies. The last thing you want to do is cut the bite and suck out the venom. Very bad form. If there is interest I can post more later on this. Suffice it to say - it is a good thing to become very familiare with all the local snake species and be able to identify one - it can have a dramatic effect on they type of treatment you recieve in case of a bite.

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Curious. Has anyone heard of a documented case of a hiker being bitten by a rattlesnake? Personally I have not. Obviously I'm sure its happened, but how, when, where? What were the medical implications?

Hell, yes. I know two people who have been bitten. My father has been bitten by a Western Diamondback while dove hunting (same basic thing as hiking - gotta get to where the birds are). And I have been bitten twice by Copperhead vipers while hiking in Houston, TX. I have nearly stepped on 1 rattlesnake and 3 water mocasins (again all in TX), and seen many more.

I'm very interested in knowing more about your encounters with snakes. Where was your dad bitten? I've heard, (Anecdotally) that the snake sucking kit is a waste of time but I would like to know what the hell to do when and if bitten. I doubt that it would ever happen but I hate being unprepared for the preparable.

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Snick, funny you should ask what to do...I am working on an article about Snake encounters! Should be up in the next 2 days!

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

[quote='ck1']
Snick, funny you should ask what to do...I am working on an article about Snake encounters! Should be up in the next 2 days!
[/quote]

Great ck1,

I hate to sound like an old 'Superman' Comic Book but I tend to not fear what I understand. We have had many encounters with snakes but our worst was an encounter with a Sonoran Mountain Snake. It was ugly, only because we couldn't remember the old saying about: 'When red touched black you'd better get back' damn, still can't remember it.

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

That should read, 'what I don't understand'

BoyNhisDog · Post by **BoyNhisDog** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

'Red next to yellow can kill a fellow.' That is for the poisonous Coral snake. Some kingsnakes I think have similar colors.

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Thanks Boy,

Patty is a teacher and she uses those sayings for everything. I think she calls them 'Numonics' We should start a contest for helpful hiking numonics, like: 'When a shovel hits a fellow, it's time to be mellow'

Fritzski · Post by **Fritzski** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

'Red next to black: friend of Jack'

evenstarx3 · Post by **evenstarx3** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Lord help the poor soul...was it cakewalk

: ....or maybe GTG

:.....said he was colorblind :!:

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

That would be Cakewalk, unfortunately, he has to kill all snakes he encounters. He is also perplexed by: 'Red Sky in the Morning, Sailors Take Warning'. Cake always wears a raincoat when he hikes, just in case.

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

I finished the snake encounters article tonight...sent it in about 10 minutes ago...surprised joe hasn't posted it yet.

kidding.

the Grand Canyon article will wait another day or so.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Fritzski: You are right in being concerned about your attack pooch. I've been hiking in Az for 32 years, seen very few on the trail (God in His wisdom gives us the desert to hike in winter, the transition zone in spring and fall, and the high country in summer) I hiked for 16 years with my late beagle Nellie. When she was about a year old, I had her snake proofed by a trainer. He used a live rattler defanged in front of me with needle nosed pliers. The snake was left free and the dog allowed to approach. When the dog went up to the snake-twice-(beagles are proof that the way to train a dog is to find out what he wants to do and tell him to do it) and was struck, the trainer used a wireless shock collar to give her lots of volts at low amperage. It's like grabbing a spark plug. After the second jolt, she decided snakes were bad news. Cheap protection for the 50 bucks it cost back in about 1980.

About four months later we were hiking into Reavis. Near the Gap Trail junction, Nellie balked and refused to go further. We explored but found nothing. She would not cross that spot. Finally she looped around it about 50 yards off the trail, looking very spooked. I was convinced she smelled something to do with snake on that spot. If I get another dog, I'll have it done again for sure. Check AZ Republic outdoor reporter for some sources.

The Sawyer kit is much better than the old Cutter models, and less risk of damage from cutting. The bite rarely kills (last fatality in Az was on horseback in a narrow deep wash and struck directly into femoral artery in thigh) but tissue necrosis can be severe. Best to extract as much as fast as you can, which is the Sawyer. Never use a tourniquet, but an Ace bandage upstream can be of value (this also-with a heavy surgi-pad underneath- works well for severe bleeding).

A dog typically goes in low, head down nose out and takes the hit in the face, neck or shoulder. The tremendous edema someone else mentioned can actually cause the airway to swell shut causing asphyxiation. If you can get an airway hose like EMTs use for CPR down the airway in time, that can assure ventilation. Your vet may be willing to give you something that will work for your dog, and show how to find airway instead of digestive tract. -R

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Feb 01 2002 5:00 am

Randy, that's great information. I copied it and posted it with the Snake Encounters article...hope you don't mind. I figured readers would find it useful information!

Thanks again!

Snake Gaiters

Snake Gaiters

Bad Snakes

Drunk Again