Federal Closure of the Forest

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 12 2002 7:48 pm

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

Let's hear it!

MtnGeek · Post by **MtnGeek** » Jun 12 2002 7:57 pm

Personally I think certain trails should be open like the Elden Lookout trail and Humphreys Peak trail, but with forest rangers on the trail. Maybe everybody taking to these trails should be given a a list of do nots, such as smoking and if you are caught braking the rules there is a stiff fine to pay. There should be a few forest rangers on the trail making sure everybody is behaving. As far as the least traveled trails, keep them closed. No use putting a ranger in an area that will see maybe 5 people all day.

Cakewalk · Post by **Cakewalk** » Jun 12 2002 9:45 pm

I like the pass idea.

it gives responsability to the individuals. And a list of names and address's if there is a problem.

Nighthiker · Post by **Nighthiker** » Jun 12 2002 10:34 pm

Smoking and campfires are not the only fire causes. Motor vehicle exhaust systems, brakes, chains draging and target shooting can also be a cause of a fire. I believe they should have closed much earlier but all the forest managers waited until they had a large fire to start closing areas. Yes most people are responsible, however until they figure out a method to determine a persons common sense, close to all.

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Jun 12 2002 11:20 pm

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 13 2002 7:39 am

Nighthiker wrote: until they figure out a method to determine a persons common sense

(as a teacher) I have often wished for this type of measure....but I agree with the closures...yesterday...while hiking windcave...we passed a group of perhaps 5 adults...at first glance they looked responsible, except they didn't have much water....they asked us to take their picture....I agreed, but only if one of the gentlemen would put out his cigarette...he asked why, I explained the situation...his response surprised me...he said "I had no idea it was that bad"...at first I lumped him into the "dumbass" category of people. but upon completing our hike and returning to the trailhead, Pat (my wife) pointed out that there are no warning signs or anything at the trailhead...I would think that in times like these, the FS and local park rangers would put out temporary signs...big ones in several languages...warning of the dangers

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 13 2002 7:41 am

As I reread my post, it dawned on me...the NPS has tons of signs at Grand Canyon warning of the dangers of hiking below the rim...but every year tons of "dumbasses" take their family of 5 down to the river with only a can of coke...

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 13 2002 9:16 am

Colin - I agree. The only problem with signs is that so many people assume that a sign is for the "irresponsible" or for the "dumbasses" - however, by their personal definition, they don't qualify as either. Therefore the sign doesn't apply to THEM specifically.

I have even talked to people who have done stupid things (like ignoring a sign) and then they say something like "They should post a sign or something" - then I casually point out that there is a large sign, clearly writen, right in front of them. The normal response? "I didn't see it."

People are blind. I used to drive a school bus (big, yellow, you know the type). I had a small accident where a lady turned left right in front of me. Naturally, I hit her. The police took her statement - guess what she said: "I didn't see him coming." So, you couldn't see a HUGE YELLOW object barrelling down on you that was no more than 30 ft in front of your windshield? An object that is 5 times as big as your pathetic little Taurus? You're kidding right?

No matter how much we try, no matter how obvious we try to make it - there are still idiots out there.

Who was it that said "You can't make aything fool-proof, fools are too ingenious"?

ck_1 · Post by **ck_1** » Jun 13 2002 10:02 am

olesma wrote: I used to drive a school bus (big, yellow, you know the type).

I am familar with them, we call them "Big Yellow Loser Cruisers"...

Your points are dead on though.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 13 2002 10:11 am

ck1 wrote: I am familar with them, we call them "Big Yellow Loser Cruisers"...

Ouch!

olesma · Post by **olesma** » Jun 13 2002 10:11 am

Hey - I didn't RIDE the short bus you know...I just drove it

My hero at the time was Otto the bus driver:

"I stand by my record. 15 accidents...no fatalities."

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Jun 13 2002 11:25 am

I think signs are the answer, but they have to make sense and not become permenant fixtures. I've seen those "Fire Danger Alert" signs in January still saying fire danger is extreme. I think people tend to ignore signs if they are always displayed.

How about HAZ courtesy signs that we can post in the forests? We could agree to maintain them and replace them. Hell we need a cause anyway.

Having said that, I must warn you that last year in desperation I placed a few signs at the airport directing people how to catch the shuttles to the economy lots. The police were not amused by my efforts . . . . .

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Jun 13 2002 11:58 am

Most of us have been idiots at one time or another. Sometimes it is caused by lack of info but most often it is because we are just out to lunch. Sooo ... we need things that save us from our dumb selves. Some things that come to mind are safety caps on poisons and medicines, those grooves on the side of the road that tell you when you are too close to the edge. I guess they quit doing it, but for a couple of years up at the canyon they were selling drinks and snacks near the most popular touristy trailheads and handing out literature.

Anyway--we need to think about how we learned about nature and the adverse consequences of being idiots. Perhaps there are ways we can help. I know that there are volunteers around town here who are helping to keep folks out of the woods. Speaking up politely when we see a dumb thing about to go down is good too. More ideas?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jun 20 2002 2:40 am

I prefer Rodeos with Cowboys not Firefighters

jeremy77777 · Post by **jeremy77777** » Jul 03 2002 5:49 pm

Even if there is rain in good amounts this summer, Do you think they will open the forests back up?

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jul 03 2002 8:25 pm

It will certainly be interesting to see where the threshold stands.

I haven't a clue yet I imagine it'll be several inches. Also depends on the rain. Some of the monsoons come down so severe they don't soak in.

I'm crossing my fingers for October. That's only three months so it may be premature.

The NWS guy on Horizon last week was talking how we just came out of a 25 to 30 year excess. Unfortunately the pattern typically flips so we may be in for some drier than usual years until the mid 2020's... eeek! I'll be FIFTY, what's the point!

MaryPhyl · Post by **MaryPhyl** » Jul 03 2002 8:35 pm

I think they will open the forests up again as soon as we have some really good rains. It is much too hard on the tourist business that so many of these communities depend on to leave them closed any longer than they must.

Randy · Post by **Randy** » Jul 04 2002 2:36 pm

Watch that 50 stuff, Joe, You'll be there some day.....Just because I'm old, gray, fat, out-of-shape, and women haven't given me the time of day since leisure suits went out of style, is no reason to give us old fossils grief in this nice family forum.

Besides, some of us like Snick, Hoolie and I have sensitive feelings. Just cause we're over the hill doersn't mean we can't climb the trail it just takes us longer...

-Randy

Snick33 · Post by **Snick33** » Jul 04 2002 3:34 pm

Give em' hell Randy. Somedays I do feel like I waited so long for my ship to come in, that my dock fell in the water.

joebartels · Post by **joebartels** » Jul 04 2002 4:12 pm

Non-respectful joke on my part. I apologize.

Federal Closure of the Forest

How do you feel about the closing of the forest?

Federal Closure of the Forest

Doesn't apply...

Re: Doesn't apply...

Re: Doesn't apply...

The short bus

Signage

You'll be there some day Teva Joe!!!!

Yes, we all have feelings