Scary NRA Militia types?!!

[pixelfrog]

Hi All,

I was on a beautiful hike this past saturday morning on the Bluffs Springs Trail in the Sups. The Temperature cooperated, the sun was behind clouds, there was a nice breeze and of course anyone who's been out there knows the scenery is increadible.

The only weird thing about the hike was on the way back to the trailhead at the end of my hike probably within a half mile of the peralta trailhead, I ran into these two guys that were all suited up for war games or something. Camo, Knives strapped to gear suspenders, a pistol at the older man's side who had so much facial hair, you could barely see his face.

As I passed them with my hiking poles out the older guy said to me all suprised, "Ski Poles?!!!" I quickly explained they helped the old knees on the way down after I noticed he had a gun at his side. I pretty much smiled and nodded then continued on my way.

Now I'm all for everyone's right to bear arms and all, but seeing this kind of freaked me out. I know it's legal to carry handguns in Arizona and that's fine, but I was thinking there isn't a very large reason to carry a gun out there, especially if you are with another full grown adult male.

I have no idea what their reason would be for bringing those types of weopons out there, and the whole incident was a bit disturbing. I was glad that I encountered these yahoo's close to the trailhead. Anyone else run into any of these gun toting militia type weirdo's?

Paul

[PaleoRob]

Too bad the media is so anti-gun, and therefore only shows one side of the NRA story. They keep reiterating that same moronic mantra, "you don't need an assault rifle to hunt deer". Please, someone show me where the 2nd amendment mentions deer hunting as the reason for the right to bear arms...

No kidding!

[Jeffshadows]

"Assault Rifle" is a term that the media created anyway. How many liquor store stick-ups and bank robberies are accomplished with an M4 or AK-47? They're too bulky, unwieldy, and the ammo is too expensive. If you want to ban Uzis and Mac-10's...I'm with you on that one, though.

[Strand]

That's part of the whole problem with the media. They believe that the AR in AR15 means "Assault Rifle", and that they (along with civilian AK47s and some other angry looking firearms) are all fully automatic weapons. If you call my M4 what it is, a small caliber semi-automatic carbine, it removes all of the fear factor.

As to why I need one. That's my choice. They're light weight, easy to clean (once you learn what you are doing), very accurate compared to most other semi-auto rifles and cheap to shoot (about the same price for ammo as a 45ACP). But at any practical range for most criminals, they are nowhere near as powerful as a semi auto or pump action 12 gauge with 8-10 rounds of OO shot.

I don't see the need to ban any particular firearm. The bad guys don't buy them from stores, and all that will happen is that the drug shipments from Mexico will be accompanied by pallets of AKs (if they aren't already).

[Jeffshadows]

The main reason I keep an M4 around is due to the fact that it is what I was trained to use for so many years. You get comfortable with something and it's safer for all concerned if you stick with it. ;)

[PaleoRob]

The latest attempt to reauthorize the "assault weapons ban" would make my Marlin Goose Gun an assault weapon. Not sure how something that can only hold three shots and is almost five feet long would be an effective "assault" weapon, unless you're assaulting geese or turkey...

[Strand]

let me guess, it has a pistol grip on the stock?

[JimmyLyding]

<<and all that will happen is that the drug shipments from Mexico will be accompanied by pallets of AKs (if they aren't already).>>

Actually, the Mexican drug gangs get their guns in the U.S. Houston is a common source.

[Jeffshadows]

<<and all that will happen is that the drug shipments from Mexico will be accompanied by pallets of AKs (if they aren't already).>>

Actually, the Mexican drug gangs get their guns in the U.S. Houston is a common source.

I saw those articles, too. A buddy I work with is a liaison to the Southern AZ Counter-Narcotics Alliance and they, apparently, have no idea where this information came from or if it is even legit. The article talks about these guys buying full-auto weapons from licensed dealers in the US, which maybe happened once or twice, but cannot in any way be the norm. To transfer a class-III firearm to a private party, that party must first posses a tax stamp from the ATF for that weapon, in his/her name. Additionally, most class-III firearms cost upward of $20K...a piece. What's more, they're scarce!! Why would anyone go to all the trouble of waiting a year for a stamp and spending tens of thousands of dollars for one full-auto Kalashnikov when that same person could go to Bolivia or Panama, or one of a half-dozen other countries nearby, and purchase five crates of them for the same money? Heck, they'll probably even throw in a few grenades and a bag of blow for your trouble down there.

One of the things the media loves to do with gun stories is superimpose the term "semiautomatic" with "automatic." When they get pushed on it later on, they just say: "Oh, I didn't understand the difference; I hate guns so I don't know them, etc." It seems to me that people who have so much influence over public opinion and perception should operate with stricter guidelines and more of a sense of honor and self-responsibility.

Are drug cartel members buying semi-auto handguns and the like here on the US market? Almost certainly. That isn't news. But, make it sound like they're outfitting a light infantry platoon from gun shows and local stores and now you have something sensational! Too bad it's just more bogus, baseless garbage. Azbackpacker is right...why does anyone even buy the newspaper anymore? All it will tell you is that you're broke (even with $$ in the bank), that your health is in ever more present jeopardy (even with your active lifestyle), and that your world is going to end when some rogue comet crashes into it because the government isn't doing anything to protect us, etc. Why pay $2.50 to get punched in the crotch like that every week?!

[dysfunction]

They could be buying them here, but it'd be more likely that if they are they're black market weapons anyway. As you've said, legal NFA weapons are expensive because there is (now) a finite supply, there really isn't a finite supply of AK clones worldwide... I could pick up a couple throughout most of the 3rd world with the money I have in my pocket at the moment to be honest.

[Jeffshadows]

Yea, I've heard that you can go to various places in Africa and South America and buy an AK for five bucks US...complete with mags and ammo.

[JimmyLyding]

It is also easy to buy AK-47s, SKSs, etc. in this country's black market. Very easy. Yes, automatic ones, and they're cheap.

[Jeffshadows]

I would like to see the proof behind what you're saying, James.

[joebartels]

I don't care to see that posted on HAZ ;)

[Jeffshadows]

Understood.

[Strand]

This says two things to me (if the article is accurate - afterall it's based on a government report and we know how spot on those are!):

1. Making something illegal does nothing to discourge the bad guys. (Drugs, guns, stolen cars, etc)
2. The guys in Mexico are less afraid of our legal system than their own. That makes me feel all warm and fuzzy.

[JimmyLyding]

There's no need to post any proof. You either believe me or you don't. This isn't any big secret, and I'm not anti-gun. I have no agenda here.
The Mexican drug gangs typically don't want cheap SKSs. Narcotraficantes are more interested in high-end weapons than cheap junk that "fell off of a truck" in Bolivia.
Check out the slideshow on the LA Times website if you want to see some graphic pictures from the Mexico Drug War.
Most people call me Jim, BTW.

I don't think it has much to do with Mexican drug gangs being less afraid of our legal system than their own. First of all I find it very hard to believe that any Mexican drug soldier would be less afraid of our legal system. If they get busted in Mexico, they ask the judge "cuanta cuesta la multa?" How much is the bite? Or they ask the judge "quieres nuestro plata o plomo?" Do you want our silver or our lead? As an aside my espanol is pretty bad these days! If they get busted in the USA, they go to prison. Or they commit suicide by tying their hands behind their back, and shooting themselves in the back of the head. Of course they don't have to worry about US law enforcement personnel making them "disappear" as often happens south of the border.

However, I don't think it has much to do with that issue. They get so many firearms in this country because firearms are easy to get in this country. This country has so many guns that it would boggle even my mind were I to know the true count, and I currently own a dozen! Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris amassed a small arsenal so what do you think some ruthless Mexican gangsters with untold millions of dollars can round up? I know that guns aren't as easy to purchase now, but it's easier to buy a gun (at least one that's more sophisticated than a Saturday night special) in this country than in Mexico.

BTW, does anyone know much about the Springfield 1903 because I need to refurbish the one that my grandfather liberated from the US Army in 1945?

[Jeffshadows]

There's a guy with a in Tucson that specializes in refurbishing those older rifles. I think he's on Grant Rd.

The "silver or lead" quote was created by Pablo Escobar in the early 80's. Either these guys have appropriated it for their own use, or it is being mis-attributed.

[JimmyLyding]

I have no idea what they actually say. The "plata o plomo" bit is metaphorical, but it nicely sums up the possibilities regarding the impending transaction.

[Jeffshadows]

The all subscribe to the same newsletter, that's for sure...

[JimmyLyding]

It wouldn't shock me in the least if they actually do say it, and it would shock me even less if they do it to emulate Senor Escobar