Arizona Epic Adventures -Inner Basin Upward-Camp at 11,000ft

[Orange]

Located just north of Flagstaff in the Kachina Peaks Wilderness are the two tallest peaks in Arizona. It is from within this wilderness area, the Humphreys and Agassiz peaks dominate the landscape from their respective heights of 12,637ft and 12,353ft. Needless to say, these are Arizona’s giants. Just below these giants, yet well within the depths of their shadows, is an awesome little saddle that offers absolutely spectacular views of the great state of Arizona. Ok, ok…so the area is not in any constant shadows, but at 11,000ft and being adjacent to the other mountains, we will probably spend at least some time in the shade!

The place I am referring to is Doyle Saddle...(or is it Freemont Saddle?). It is a neat little area, with surprisingly a lot of flat ground to make camp. In fact, the area was once used as a camp (I believe by Weatherford himself), as evidenced by the old rusted Ford Model-T axle and metal oven up at the location. There is evidence of much more recent use of the site as well, as there is a fire ring at the site. I suspect this area does not see a lot of camping use, but being right outside of the inner basin boundary (the no camping zone of the wilderness), this is really quite the idyllic spot…especially with the views!

-Poochie
http://www.meetup.com/Arizona-Epic-Adventures-Under35/

[big_load]

Does anybody think Poochie has even been back to check this forum after posting these events?

He hasn't responded to similar reaction on other forums he posted the events on.

[BobP]

@PLC92084
. Non-profit groups promoting hiking ( not promoting a website ) are welcome to post event-links ( not links to content that could be posted on HAZ

[PLC92084]

I was probably just being overly sensitive 'cuz I'm too old to participate. My bad...

[chumley]

I'm in what can at best be described as loser-dom.

Lighten up Jim! I don't think posting rants on web forums fits the profile of loserdom...
:whistle:

[Jim]

Hence, the "at worst" qualifier. Refer to the original, unedited post. Your quote is changed.

Never the less, After moving to Flag in 2006, then Kayenta, and now Alamogordo, which even iMike has written is not a good place to be single and a hiker, I prefer the originally written "at best" qualifier of "denial". No stupid unfunny river references please.

[chumley]

That was my mistake. I meant to shorten it to remove both the at best and at worst qualifiers. "I'm in what can be described as loser-dom."

As to this whole restriction thing, I don't think there are any rules relating to haz events and who can or can't be invited. In fact, I think the hazfest event clearly states that if somebody is a grumpy curmudgeon they probably shouldn't go (though it doesn't technically say they CAN'T go). In Liz's case, I don't think it would be a problem to list a women-only event, nor is it bad to limit a specific hike to people with a certain level of experience.

I made light of it in this thread because I found it amusing that somebody who is 33 years old put an under 35-year qualifier on it. Like those two years make any difference at all? If he was 23 then an under-35 qualifier would have seemed a bit more reasonable?

As I add more years, I realize that spending time with people who are a few years older than me is usually enlightening. You can learn lots of good stuff from people who've "been there and done that" already. Plus they usually have more money than me and bring expensive food and beer.

[CannondaleKid]

Non-profit groups promoting hiking ( not promoting a website ) are welcome to post event-links

I'd fully agree with if the poster (in this case 'Poochie') was a longer-term member of HAZ.

Frankly the idea of signing in for the first time and immediately posting some half-dozen events then bailing out (My take based on the lack of response to his posts) just isn't respectful to the Hike Arizona site.
:SB:

[chumley]

Maybe if some hikers on HAZ joined him on some of his hikes? If he posts in 5 different forums and gets participants from the others, but not this one, there's not a whole lot of incentive to participate here. I'm unable to go on any of his planned outings, but sincerely hope he is able to swing by hazfest when he's in flag that same weekend. Looks like he enjoys a lot of the same kinds of hikes that I like. (As long as I'm not too old )

[BobP]

@CannondaleKid
Those aren't my words.....they are from the Haz development team. Actually,it is related to encouraging a first time poster to link an event to the meetup.

[BobP]

What does 35 and under really mean? Maybe they just do backpacks under 35 miles ;)

[paulhubbard]

He's probably simply trying to get more participation, either on the hikes or on the site. Looks like most of the outings on the site he linked only have 1 or 2 people committed. It would be nice if he checked in once in a while instead of just blasting invites and hoping for the best.

[Tough_Boots]

Let's be nice to Poochie. Maybe in a couple years when he's no longer allowed to be in his own hiking club, he'll come and do some hikes with us

[azbackpackr]

Hmmm... Ok. I think HAZ is mostly a hiking website for hikers of unspecified age or experience. I think it is okay to "vet" (awful word) hikers for their experience. For instance, if Vaporman posts an event on HAZ to do some outrageous canyoneering feat, I think he would be within the scope of fairness and safety to ask me how much experience I have rappelling down a 1200 foot cliff into a slot canyon full of small icebergs. Experience is important. Age and gender are not going to be important factors in his decision to tell me, "Well, gee, Liz, maybe not this time. Let's see you get some more experience in this type of trip." That's fair.

I won't post a women-only hike on here. It's not fair to the guys. I did lead a women-only hike this weekend, posted only in a women's meetup group. It's experimental for me, since generally I haven't liked to exclude on the basis of gender.

[JoelHazelton]

In fact, I think the hazfest event clearly states that if somebody is a grumpy curmudgeon they probably shouldn't go (though it doesn't technically say they CAN'T go).

On the contrary- I sincerely urge any and all grumpy curmudgeons to show up to Hazfest Only one stipulation: Their real personality must match their online persona. If I don't get to drink around the campfire and listen to rants all night I'm gonna be pissed ;)

[Jim]

Well, I for one have never excluded people from a hike based on age, or anything else. I might post it isn't for beginners, or for fast hikers only, but that is all. To me, dating is the only reason to set an age parameter. However, there are always issues with that.

Age really has nothing to do with ability. Training does. Yubao, on the Las Cruces meet up, is in his late 40s and hikes and runs often. He is in excellent shape and a fantastic hiker. There have been a few younger hikers in their middle 20s who have singed on to the group, participated briefly, and then faded away (very typical I have found for these groups). They might have wanted to be hikers, but they were not terribly good, and instead of coming out often and getting better, they stopped coming. As a thought, younger hikers under 30 ( just using a convenient age) might not want to hike often as they do all sorts of things, and many just like the idea of hiking but don't ever actually do it. Sort of like me saying I am a freedom fighter in Bolivia. Some simply don't want to do what it takes to get better, as it is hard, and others found out it was more than wearing designer clothes from REI. As we get older, we tend to be more established in what we like, and be more willing to do what it takes to be good on some level, at the things we do or what we want to do. Granted, the gifted hiker at 25, 30, 40, or 70, will probably see a decline in performance as they age, but a 75 year old hiker who does 6,000 to 8,000' of AEG and 20+ miles every week can easily beat a couch potato 25 year old. Even if it takes them twice as long to make those hikes as it did when they were half their present age, they can hike circles around someone who thinks 1 mile and 500' is a lot. Thus, my most recent rant on hikearizona.com is concluded.

[Jim]

In fact, I think the hazfest event clearly states that if somebody is a grumpy curmudgeon they probably shouldn't go (though it doesn't technically say they CAN'T go).

On the contrary- I sincerely urge any and all grumpy curmudgeons to show up to Hazfest Only one stipulation: Their real personality must match their online persona. If I don't get to drink around the campfire and listen to rants all night I'm gonna be pissed ;)

Oh man, I can't make it!

[Jim]

I think I'm going to post a hike for bitter members only! Age range 30 to 35, men only, fast hikers only, and there will be a lot cursing, so no delicate flowers need participate. You can bet you ***** there is going to be a lot of ***** and spicy cats will be on the menu. What hike shall I use for this event?

[chumley]

Something with a minimum of 5000 aeg. Let me type that into the mapdex.

Edit: There. Looks like the perfect summitkopelli hike. http://hikearizona.com/decoder.php?ZTN=14617

[CannondaleKid]

@CannondaleKid
Those aren't my words.....they are from the Haz development team.

Having read it on more than one occasion I kind of figured that but since it was in your post, I simply responded to it.

Actually,it is related to encouraging a first time poster to link an event to the meetup.

While I do understand the philosophy of it, I stand by my opinion the machine-gun posts are not very respectful to the HAZ site.

But then again, by the lack of response here and on the meetup group this will probably go away on its own.

[Orange]

Yikes...I think this all was way misinterpreted.

First, I meant no disrespect to the HAZ community. I have long used the site, but yes, only recently registered to be able to post and such. I didn't mean to flood the forums with my posts and I apologize to everyone whom views the events as just spam...they aren't meant to be that. Perhaps it was just my ignorance, or perhaps because I did not notice many activities on the calendar actually posted, I thought that it would be acceptable to post some of my events on the HAZ calendar.

Per the rules I agreed to, I felt that my posts were in-line with all policies because I am not any type of business, I did not see the events posted on HAZ, and I am only posting them to try and gain additional interest in promoting my hiking/backpacking events.

As far as the age...

I'm not some arrogant, narcissistic individual that thinks I know it all and that I can't learn from older individuals...nor am I trying to run any type of singles club on my meetup site. Before beginning my group, I have had some experience with quite a few other groups and such. What I have found, again, in my experiences, is that if you let the age of the group go unrestricted, you end up with a group of people who frankly can have trouble relating to each other around the campfire. I have nothing against individuals older than myself. I know my age is already putting me near the top-end of the group...this is also something I have been considering altering. However, the previous group I was associated with and was actively involved in the leadership, was a 35 & under group...this kind of made it a default for me.

Again, this was all based on all of MY prior experiences... I know that there may be older individuals that I can relate to out there and vice-versa. And frankly, if you are out there, I want to know. I would really, honestly, enjoy hearing from you and getting your feedback. My ONLY goal, is to start a great meetup group with a very active core group that loves going out into the wild, going on all kinds of trips, doesn't mind shenanigans around the fire after a long hard day of hiking, and whose members do not easily get offended. Honestly...I want to have a successful, fun, group that loves the outdoors. It has nothing to do with singling out ages, has nothing to do with singles, and has nothing to do with unintentionally offending the HAZ community.

I apologize for any offenses I have caused, and I am sincerely interested in getting constructive feedback on what could be done to make Arizona Epic Adventures an awesome group. Truthfully, I don't care about the ages...it was a default. I would like to hear what others think and feel about this, while keeping in mind where I am coming from with my past experiences, and lets see what can be done. If there are a group of you who are 'outside of the range' and whatever right now, but are interested in the trips I'm planning so far...please, shoot me a message. The LAST thing I want is for my meetup group to fail before it really gets going due to a simple misunderstanding.

And by the way, there really are some great, great trips planned on the calendar. I look forward to hearing from all of you.

-Poochie