If they really "cared" they'd open Camelback sunset to sunrise
or at least 2 hours before sunrise and after sunset ( I've heard the smorgasbord of excuses and this is doable )
Too many things wrong with a policy like this so I doubt it will pass. (I'm sure the legal issues abound)
First... it's very likely un-enforceable.
100/110 degrees where? Trail-head, summit, Sky Harbor?
Just because the forecast calls for it?
And as far as SAR not going out when conditions are dangerous?
I'm sure that would look great on the news:
Reporter: "Why aren't you going out to rescue this person?"
SAR supervisor: "It's too hot for a safe rescue... our people may be in danger."
The potential for lawsuits against the city wouldn't allow it. And frankly, as someone else mentioned earlier, for Phoenix Fire/Paramedics, that is the job they signed up for.
Would they NOT fight fires (or rescue hikers) because they could be injured?
After 34 years spent in the fire service I learned a long time ago that the reason I had a job was that people tend to lack common sense. I also learned that those who impose rules over us lack even less common sense. I enjoy hiking at night but some place do not allow, but Yes while hiking at night I have been scared (that missile silo security detail) and startled (stepping on a squeeze toy) but I think what we are comfortable and capable of when it comes to outdoor recreation, we should be allowed.
@knmurphy Since I absolutely believe bro culture to be responsible for 60-70% of the harm to public spaces, including Fossil Creek and other such public spaces, yes.
I blame the bros and the broettes for a good bit of the empty beer cans, trash, fires not being put out, rescues due to bro-ing, etc. Not all. I'm not stupid.
So, yes. And I certainly acknowledge that I am speaking in generalities. I am NOT a fan of the culture. Period. Which as an American, I'm allowed to have an opinion.
Stoke is ruining the wild. All they're after is a good time and an IG shot and they couldn't care less about their impacts or the spaces. I use IG, FWIW, but I'm not doing backflips off rocks for the likes.
Follow me on Instagram: hikingjason
"It's not the mountains that we conquer, but ourselves"
@JasonCleghorn
I fail to see the connection between being allowed to hike Camelback when it's hot out and people that don't practice LNT ethics. It's not like putting temperature restrictions on all of us are going to clear the tools out of your IG feed. I don't like the idea of a city council member deciding when it's OK for me to hike.
Everyone has a right to an opinion but not the right to have it go unchallenged.
knmurphy wrote:@JasonCleghorn
I fail to see the connection between being allowed to hike Camelback when it's hot out and people that don't practice LNT ethics. It's not like putting temperature restrictions on all of us are going to clear the tools out of your IG feed. I don't like the idea of a city council member deciding when it's OK for me to hike.
Everyone has a right to an opinion but not the right to have it go unchallenged.
You don't. And that's exactly why I support the ban. It's admittedly not apples to apples but it is fruit to fruit.
I am sick of the young in our current society doing whatever the they want to do. This breaks the world and I am sick of it. If you'll hike at Camelback with no water, with a boom box, when it's 120, with a dog, you will throw your dang PBR can down at the creek. And I am over it.
Follow me on Instagram: hikingjason
"It's not the mountains that we conquer, but ourselves"
@JasonCleghorn
Kinda like apples to bowling pins. I'm sure heat restrictions will square away all the problems with those pesky kids and their cans of PBR. You support it because I don't? Fruit to Fruit?
So all the people that do go out and train in the heat every year without the need for rescue, are we all bros? Hope not, I don't really like light beer.
Personally I don't like exercising around those people either, practically 80% of the people I run into on a city hike bother me for one reason or another (mostly playing music out loud) but I figure the heat can sort them out.
On a lighter note: The only time I can get good parking at Squaw is if it's over 100.
I hiked off trail with a firearm in a closed mountain park last night.
Ipso facto I will not be voting in this year's big election.
May he guide you through the wilderness : protect you through the storm;
May he bring you home rejoicing : at the wonders he has shown you; Armchair Crisis Design
@lindaagm
It makes sense after all how many dogs get rescued every year vs people? And really what about horse that carry 250lbs people in the heat? Maybe horses have zero value.
@Widowmaker I don't agree with their decision regarding the dogs, I don't think there should be any sort of ban, but at least they came up with sort of a compromise. People can choose whether or not they want to hike, dogs or other animals don't have that choice. The most popular of these trails already ban dogs, and as for the others, I bet after a couple of weeks, nobody will even be paying attention.
@lindaagm
Actually regarding dogs doesn't really bother me. I been taking Rowdy up north because it is to hot. But then again how will they do this? A 100 degrees at the beginning of a hike or half way through it? And really what about horse's. I carry water for Rowdy but who carries the water for horses in this heat?
@Widowmaker I'm sure the Parks Dept will come up with and distribute the information about how they will decide when the ban will be in effect. I'm not the least bit concerned about horses. Their handlers know better than anyone else what conditions they need to kept out of. Considering how expensive horses are to own, I doubt that it's much of an issue of their owners willing to take a risk in unsafe conditions--whatever those may be.
Yes while hiking at night I have been scared (that missile silo security detail) and startled (stepping on a squeeze toy) but I think what we are comfortable and capable of when it comes to outdoor recreation, we should be allowed.
they want to do. This breaks the world and I am sick of it. If you'll hike at Camelback with no water, with a boom box, when it's 120, with a dog, you will throw your dang PBR can down at the creek. And I am over it.
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