Southern AZ trash

[sirena]

I just came back from Baboquivari, and was disheartened to see that drug runners/immigrants (but most likely drug runners) are trashing Thomas Canyon. I can't say I am surprised, being that it is only 16 miles from the border, but friends that have been doing Babo every year say that this is the first year that they have seen evidence of encampments in the canyon itself. We hauled a large garbage bag full of empty cans, several backpacks, Electrolit and water bottles out of the canyon that looked to be pretty recent. Then on the dirt road back to highway 286, we stopped numerous times to pick up more trash, all with Spanish labels. Also on the dirt road, we saw 4 drug runners (all in black, carrying large packs) climbing a ridge in broad daylight. Once we got back onto 286, we saw tons of border patrol trucks (we counted about 25 either passed us or were sitting on the side of the road), but they were all in their big fancy vehicles on the blacktop. Why is it that I never see Border Patrol out on the trails or in the trashed areas? Do they really think that their system of driving on the main roads and manning their checkpoints is an effective way to catch people?

[Ckzona]

When i was in tucson a couple years ago, I heard that the main group of people who find most of the drug runners, illegals, etc are the native indians on their lands. I also watched a show about them (i forgot what they were called) and while they were deep in the country searching for them the only time border patrol would be there was when the native indians called for backup

[Davis2001r6]

If you think Babo is bad you should see around Miller Peak.

[sirena]

The Huachucas are a gigantic mess- it's a shocking sight and there's no way to keep up with the amount of trash that is left there. I guess what makes me sad and angry is that it seems like every year, the number of places I am seeing drug runners and/or this kind of trash is increasing.

[Davis2001r6]

After posting I forgot you just did the AZT last year, I'm sure you saw first hand how bad it is there.

[Jeffshadows]

It's getting bad, indeed!

[writelots]

I was in Organ Pipe this weekend, and though we encoutered no trash, it's a real shame to see how much of that park has been closed to visitors and turned into a trash heap. Don't even get me started on all the new "roads" the border patrol has been "forced" to make so that they can chase down these immigrants.

Have you all watched "Border Wars" on the National Geographic Channel? Have you watched them use 7-8 border patrol agents, on foot, on ATVs, in Hummers and helicopters to track down two illegal crossers? Talk about a waste of resources. I don't care what your political stance may be, you've got to see that we can't maintain that level of waste...

[Jeffshadows]

I was in Organ Pipe this weekend, and though we encoutered no trash, it's a real shame to see how much of that park has been closed to visitors and turned into a trash heap. Don't even get me started on all the new "roads" the border patrol has been "forced" to make so that they can chase down these immigrants.

Have you all watched "Border Wars" on the National Geographic Channel? Have you watched them use 7-8 border patrol agents, on foot, on ATVs, in Hummers and helicopters to track down two illegal crossers? Talk about a waste of resources. I don't care what your political stance may be, you've got to see that we can't maintain that level of waste...

I couldn't agree more. That guy Oscar on the program was in a Wilderness Medicine course with me last year. The BORSTAR guys are a bunch of characters...

[johnlp]

One positive for the Border Patrol. My daughter used to date a Border Patrol whose job it was to go out at night, usually solo, and track down illegals on s arizona trails who were spotted by infrared or tripped sensors along the trails. He told me of times were he would encounter groups of up to twenty and have to try and hold them by himself until back up arrived. Sounded a little dangerous to me, but he likes it. Point being, it's not all wasted time and resources out there with the Border Patrol, though I'm sure inefficiency exists.

[writelots]

One positive for the Border Patrol. Point being, it's not all wasted time and resources out there with the Border Patrol, though I'm sure inefficiency exists.

Yeah - I certainly don't want to give the impression that I think there aren't guys out there doing a super job, or that some of our agents and teams aren't first rate... I suppose I should clarify just because I really respect what they're doing as a job. However, I think that we as a nation need to evaluate the resources that we're putting into this and say "is this really the right approach to securing our border?".

For perspective, a quote from CNS News Editor Terrence Jeffery (emphasis mine)

Easterling said on Tuesday that in fiscal 2009, 17,399 Border Patrol agents have been deployed on the U.S.-Mexico border. In fiscal year 2010, the Border Patrol plans to decrease that by 384 agents, leaving 17,015 deployed along the Mexican frontier. At the same time, the number of Border Patrol agents deployed on the U.S.-Canada border will be increased by 414, from a fiscal 2009 total of 1,798 agents to a fiscal 2010 total of 2,212...and the Government Accountability Office has revealed that three persons “linked to terrorism” and 530 aliens from “special interest countries” were intercepted at Border Patrol checkpoints last year.

Border Protection Commissioner Todd Owen told a House committee in July that the Border Patrol already had 894 (of 8,607) miles of border under effective control as of May 31 of this year. These 894 miles, Owen said, included 697 miles on the Mexican border, 32 miles on the Canadian border and 165 miles in the coastal sectors.

So nearly 20,000 agents to catch 3 dangerous and 530 potentially dangerous individuals entering the country. Or, if you calculate effective control, with the current system it takes 21 agents per mile of "effective control". At that rate, we would require 180,747 border patrol agents to secure all of our borders, with 42,000 of those employed along the Mexican border (and who knows how many additional administrative staff)...

Maybe this is the answer to our unemployment problem? We don't need no stinking foreign war, we can employ nearly a quarter of a million people just by policing our own border!!! All to keep out people who want to work and earn money, and who are able to find jobs and get paid once they get past that nasty strip of land. Hmm...

Sorry, off the soap box again.

[joebartels]

The border may be the issue we see, it's not the problem. Trying to fix it from that angle is odd.

I read somewhere last week that homicide is still worse in a couple US cities than Mexico as whole.

[Jeffshadows]

The US military could not close the border between Iraq and Syria that is less than 1/5th as long as the US-Mexico one using deadly force and all the hi-tech gadgets in our arsenal (Trust me, I was there trying to help make it happen.) How are we supposed to secure ours using less lethal and aggressive means?! We would need someone standing every five or ten feet day and night prepared to do whatever it takes to turn people back. Totally impossible...

(BTW - I'm absolutely NOT advocating shooting crossers, etc...)

[dysfunction]

Erich Honecker thought you could completely secure a border too, in the end it just ended up completely bankrupting the state.

[Jeffshadows]

Erich Honecker thought you could completely secure a border too, in the end it just ended up completely bankrupting the state.

Indeed; the only reason the Soviets were so good at it was because they had a lot of natural barriers in their frontier and no one in their right minds wanted in...